Ep. 80: A 24 Year Old AI Creative Director Gives Away Her Playbook

0:00:00Who is Jamey Gannon?

Play from 0:00:00 8:88:88 0:00:00 What's up, everybody? Fast Hours Podcast, episode 80. Rory Flynn, Drew Brucker, special guest today, Jamey Gannon. And uh, if you are not familiar with Jamey, um, she's an AI creative director. You've probably seen her on X and around. And you're also doing LinkedIn ads, by the way. I've been seeing you doing a partnership ad with LinkedIn, but Jamey's um Jamey's our Gen Zier we're bringing to the podcast here too, which I think she's gonna provide like this really awesome angle.

Play from 0:00:26 8:88:88 0:00:26 She's only 24 years old, which I just found out pre-show, which is insane. Um, but Jamey's based in in Brooklyn and she's been doing this design stuff for almost a decade now, a decade now. Entirely self-taught, has done a Maven course already. She's building her own course on her website right now as well. So let's welcome her to the show. And Jamey just Fill in the gaps of what I didn't call out already. Tell the people about who you are.

Play from 0:00:53 8:88:88 0:00:53 Yeah. I don't know about anyone else, but my intro just gets harder and harder every day. um Twitter buy right now is business stylist and AI creative director. Um so I do a ton of branding work, I do a ton of AI work, I make a ton of content about that stuff, and then I try and teach people everything I do. Yeah. I don't know.

Play from 0:01:19 8:88:88 0:01:19 Yeah. bring like this, uh you bring this level of sass to X that I think is much needed as well, I will say. Yeah. you're a real person. I there was a not to not to cut you off though, there was about six months ago someone like I remember someone like DMing me and being like, Is this person real? I'm like, I'm pretty sure they're real. So Really?

Play from 0:01:44 8:88:88 0:01:44 It was no way I get comments all the time, like there's no way. Like this is a girl. Like you're not afraid uh to say how you really feel about stuff. I think. And that's that's a little bit rare as well. But I'm geeked out for this one because uh I I met Jamey earlier this year, like on a project we were doing. And so um I I think she's got some really cool things that we can get into today. so we'll talk about that. We'll talk about like some of the things that she's learned along the way, we'll show some things and then I think we've got like some updates as well.

Play from 0:02:15 8:88:88 0:02:15 Like Midjourney just dropped their edit model. We can go through that, talk through sort of how we feel about initial results there. I've got mixed feelings, but we'll we'll show and tell that a little bit. But um maybe before we get into the weeds, Rory, how's dad number two life going? Like people just found out last week that you've got a second. Fill the gaps in between last week and this week. So if we're if we're gonna run through the quick the quick schedule of how we got to this moment right here, eleven twenty-six on a Friday.

Play from 0:02:47 8:88:88 0:02:47 I uh went to bed at eight last night. Um, woke up at nine forty-five, fed my son, went back to sleep, woke up at one, fed my son, went back to sleep, woke up at five forty five, walked my dog, got all five of us packed up in the car, drove two hours out to Long Island, fed him, got back and set up everything, and here we are. So There's caffeine that's running through my brain. Um, I can't sit up straight because I might just, you know, fall and decompose.

Play from 0:03:15 8:88:88 0:03:15 But hey, it's the best time of our lives. The best time of our life. Oh man, it's just it's hard. similar, similar run for me this morning. Like I actually got five hours of sleep for the first time this week, which is great. Um, but I had to do a client visit two days on site in LA. So flew out there, um, back to back meetings all day for two days straight.

Play from 0:03:41 8:88:88 0:03:41 And then on the second day, went straight to the airport, did a red eye, and got back in Atlanta at 4 45 a.m. Then I have there's an hour drive from the airport back home, you know? And I waited like 30 minutes for my bag after the plane. And I was like thinking, like, maybe I'm gonna get my bag real early because like no one's flying right now. Like this should be like they should have the bags right there. Waited 30 minutes for the bag, grab the bag, finally get out.

Play from 0:04:08 8:88:88 0:04:08 I'm on the highway, finally hitting downtown Atlanta, you know, which is about 15 minutes from the airport. All of a sudden everything comes to a complete stop. And I'm just like thinking. Like, why? Just just why? And uh sure enough, like after five to ten minutes, I'm noticing like we are not moving at all, right? Like, not even creeping. So I'm like, there's something going on here. I'm using grok in my car, like on the cyber truck, you could use this the grok button.

Play from 0:04:34 8:88:88 0:04:34 And I was like, What's like what's the what's going on? Like, can you tell what's going on with traffic? She's like, Yeah, ped pedestrian pedestrian crash. And I was like, a pedestrian crash on the highway? She's like, yeah, all lanes, all seven. So this is like a seven-lane highway, seven or eight lane. She's like, all lanes shut down at Spring Street. And like, you gotta be kidding. So I literally sat there for 45 minutes before we even moved. And then I'm all the way in the left lane.

Play from 0:05:00 8:88:88 0:05:00 And the only way to to get out of this is to go all the way to the right off the exit ramp. You know, so and and people in Atlanta are assholes about letting you over. You know, so it was, it was a journey. Got back here at like 7 a.m. Uh, fed the kids and then like they went off to school and finally slept for four hours. And so I didn't do anything yesterday, but I finally got some sleep last night.

Play from 0:05:26 8:88:88 0:05:26 Just happy to be here. Just just glad to be here. Jamey, we just want to be 24 again. This sounds this sounds so much cooler than than than this right now. But hey, again, this is the happiest time of our lives. And uh I think look, it's uh the one thing I I'll say is that uh said this, you know, having it's interesting, right? There's very not to not to parallel you or Rourke or anything. We've had both of you on sort of back to back, more on the on the younger side of Drew and I, and both had very short intros and just like direct to the point.

Play from 0:05:56 8:88:88 0:05:56 Both have been like really innovative in what they've been doing and how they've been building businesses and like not overly sort of like bombastic about it. You like that word, Drew? That's SAT word. Um, yeah, it's a good one. That's a good one. But no, I think it's I think it's really impressive because the other thing that I've noticed too is both self-taught in a lot of things. Like it seems like Jamey, you did a lot of things either growing up on is guessing YouTube university. Is that sort of where a lot of this started?

Play from 0:06:24 8:88:88 0:06:24 Okay. And And it's cool. It's like something Drew and I didn't have. Like we didn't have like the there was YouTube, but it was like, you know, cat videos. it was it wasn't like I could learn a business from it. But I definitely wanna start back there, like, because it sounds like you got started early. Like you were probably what, mid teens when you were learning this stuff. Yeah, I um I started doing design when I was like maybe fifteen or sixteen. Um my like initial exposure to it, I was running a fan page for a band called Five Seconds of Summer back in like even earlier than that when I was like eleven, twelve, thirteen.

0:06:43How Jamey taught herself design at 15

Play from 0:06:59 8:88:88 0:06:59 Um and I would do like these like fun designs and like basically little like poetic like collages and even video edits at the time, but I like never like really identified as like a designer or thought that I was like artistic. Um like actually up until I started doing design again when I was like 16, I was convinced like I'm gonna be a lawyer, I'm gonna be in like politics, like I wanna go to like an Ivy League and do like journalism or something like that.

Play from 0:07:24 8:88:88 0:07:24 Um and I was kind of just playing with like design and Photoshop on the side, just when I was like stoned and like wanted to do something, pretty much. and I kind of like fell in love with it. and then COVID happened. Well, I guess before that I actually dropped out of high school. I really wanted to like, yeah, I guess proper story is I dropped out because I really wanted to go to like an IV and I came from a really small town.

Play from 0:07:53 8:88:88 0:07:53 So like it made sense to kind of homeschool and maybe like do a bunch of APs by myself, start a charity or something, uh, and do that. Um, but then kind of like right during homeschool, um, COVID happened and I was just like, Well, I'm not going to college like right now, so I guess I'll just like keep doing design work. Um started like going on upwork, Fiverr, thought that I should start posting on Instagram to like get clients.

Play from 0:08:19 8:88:88 0:08:19 then like from there you know started posting on X. Um and now like the rest is history. But to go back to your question, actually, I kinda lost it on like YouTube. Um right around that time when I first started learning design, I was like, okay, I need to like learn Photoshop sort of look at tutorials. And I found um Chris Do from The Futur. I don't know if you guys are familiar. But yeah, their taglines like the business of design and and the design of business.

Play from 0:08:47 8:88:88 0:08:47 and 'cause I had previously wanted to go into like what I thought was like a smart career, like a lawyer, Ivy League, whatever, I was like, I don't know, design's kind of like it's just like artistic. Like I don't I'm not like an artist. Uh and like I literally remember the moment of like Chris Do explaining like what brand strategy was and I was like, like you can be creative and like work for yourself. And also it's like extremely like smart and strategic, I was like, this is like literally made for me to do branding.

Play from 0:09:14 8:88:88 0:09:14 I was like, this is perfect. you basically just get to be like a professional, smart person. Um so I basically got hooked on that and just, you know, started watching every single video I could about branding, the future. and I had like a pretty bad like YouTube addiction up until like pretty recently. But like every Hormozi video, every Gary Vee video, um I mean you name Yeah.

Play from 0:09:40 8:88:88 0:09:40 have like three of his books behind me which I need to crack open again. Yeah. I like read them all like so long ago when it like didn't really matter and now that I have like the course, it like actually is like, okay, yeah, yeah, like this matters now. Um yeah, so name name a freaking guru. I've like watched every single video. uh yeah. way. I used to sell his I used to sell the competing program to his when he was doing uh the fitness side of things.

Play from 0:10:10 8:88:88 0:10:10 When he was doing it what was called Gym Launch or something like that. Um, so like I got very familiar with their business model and like how they operated before I like even knew that he was like a, you know, like a guru, right? It was like I knew knew gym launch in and out. And it was I you know, because I was selling the competing product to see how they were doing it. We were often taking people from them. you know, a lot of times because it was just a it wasn't of the right fit for them at the time. But it's interesting because I wanna there is one one thing I wanna ask, like because Drew and I Drew and I might have a different experience in our teens.

Play from 0:10:40 8:88:88 0:10:40 Like I think a lot of you know, probably what Gen Z feels about millennials and is probably correct is that you know, we didn't really have like I personally always wanted to do something for myself, but I don't feel like anyone in my generation really was there there's very small percentage. It was like you go to college, you get this job. You work the ladder, you buy a house. Like that was sort of like the plan that was set up for us, right? Yeah. But I was just like, I can't do that.

Play from 0:11:06 8:88:88 0:11:06 I just like I hate being told what to do and like nothing works. But like for you, like during that COVID time, like you're going, you're like, I'm gonna go start a business, I'm gonna get clients, I'm gonna, you know, get do content on social. Was it was it just you or were a lot of your friends sort of like in that same mindset? I'm curious. I think because I dropped out of high school, I was very kind of like in like a solitude place.

Play from 0:11:32 8:88:88 0:11:32 So like no, like all of my friends were like literally still in high school or they were doing the college thing, which like to be fair, I would have loved to do the college thing if it like made sense. But like my high school graduation, which I didn't go to, was like literally in cars, you know. Um, but I mean even now, like because I'm still like young enough, people are still kind of like figuring it out, looking back at like people from high school or even like um I mean it's not fair to look at people in New York 'cause that's like the New York awhile, but broadly, like, no.

Play from 0:11:59 8:88:88 0:11:59 I think a lot of Gen Zers still just want to have like the normal American experience. Um, so definitely still wanna like go to college. I can speak a little bit like my sister. Um, she also she's coming to New York to college literally today, moving back into her dorm. Um, I think it's not so much about like being on your own. It's just like the kids want money. Like the kids see money online.

0:12:23Why Gen Z chases money over job titles

Play from 0:12:27 8:88:88 0:12:27 Um and shit is just expensive now. Like you can't just like go to a dive bar. Like like I mean New York is always different, but like dive bar drinks are still like $14, you know? So like the kids the kids need money. Um and like how are you gonna get money? Okay, I'm gonna this guy on TikTok said I can, you know, do drop shipping or AI UGC or whatever it is. Like they're just like hungrier and it's like more like known.

Play from 0:12:53 8:88:88 0:12:53 that you could do this stuff. Um and the desire to the desire to do it is higher too as well because you see all this like wealth. Um so Cause like if I were thinking back at that, it was like the idea that I didn't really know anybody that was was doing anything different, right? Because like our generation, like we were just trying to get in somewhere. And for me, it was like I graduated and graduated college in oh eight. And it was during that recession period too.

Play from 0:13:20 8:88:88 0:13:20 So like if you had the job lined up out of college, you know what I mean? Like that was ideal. And I was actually working, funny enough, I was working for the Cardinals at the time. Was there for a year and a half, got laid off. And then trying to get a job during that period of time when you had one thing on your resume was was so hard. And everybody else I knew, right? Everybody I went to school with, everybody else I knew, I mean, they were just in these big orcs, right? Like no one was really doing their own thing. And so I think like the fact that you had, you were seeing proof that it was, it was possible, and probably several examples of that um was awesome.

Play from 0:13:52 8:88:88 0:13:52 I'm sure that encouraged you quite a bit. And then I like how you sort of figured these things out, even though you didn't have. Anybody, you know, in real life, maybe that was in your super close circle that was doing it too. I think that says a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I think the the Gen Z side of things, like I've been I've been way more tuned in on this, right? 'Cause I'm at the point where I maybe I'm hiring someone. Like what like what do I want from an employee? And I've d I have a YouTube addiction.

Play from 0:14:18 8:88:88 0:14:18 I watch a lot of like reaction videos of all the TikToks to everyone. Like I can't get, you know, I can't get a job at, you know, bagging groceries because we have forty year old bagging groceries, right? So like there's no jobs for me. Like I'll take someone who just wants to work. Like I just want someone who wants to do stuff. Right. And has like a has that sort of ambition because that's I think that's the hardest part. Like for us, you know, we we didn't know what was possible. Like there was really, you know, drop shipping.

Play from 0:14:43 8:88:88 0:14:43 You know you see kids driving around like Lamborghinis now that are sixteen because they got big on like affiliate marketing or like, you know, brand deals or have influencer, you know, sort of you know brand partnerships. Us it was like if you saw someone driving around in a nice car in like the, you know, 2008, 2009, you're like, that dude sold drugs. You know, like that that was the only way to make significant amount of cash, right? Like that was it. That's it. But you knew it. It was like, how does that dude have a how does that dude have a, you know, uh a tuned up Mustang?

Play from 0:15:12 8:88:88 0:15:12 Yeah. And it's just like, there's no way. So it's cool. I'm just, you know, not to sidetrack on this. I just find it interesting because I think it's a uh radically different perspective than what Drew and I sort of experienced growing up. But I think, you know, to to transition, unless Drew you have anything else on that. I'm curious as like to what the What the first client experience was like when you're in your mid teens, like like dealing with like corporate people or like dealing with like older people in that sense.

0:15:35What first freelance clients look like at 17

Play from 0:15:37 8:88:88 0:15:37 I think my well, I wasn't allowed to have I'm I'm still banned from PayPal because I signed up when I was like seventeen. Um I was like one of the last there was like I remember in like twenty eighteen or twenty twenty, there was like there in like twenty twenty or twenty nineteen Upwork put in you had to be eighteen before they did an ID check before. Um so I was able to get in that. Uh I remember some of my first clients were like I used to like scroll to like get just like 300 bucks.

Play from 0:16:06 8:88:88 0:16:06 I was working at Starbucks at the time. Um, so I was making like eleven dollars an hour. So to get like a $300 gig was like insane. I remember I used to make like um now this is all probably like automated, but it was like those shirts on Amazon that are like super specific, like my dad's the best firefighter, or like love my nurse grandma. Um and I would like make those designs horribly in Illustrator.

Play from 0:16:33 8:88:88 0:16:33 little like social media graphics for like 50 bucks. Uh I remember I did get a branding gig for like 800 bucks one time, but the client was in like Australia and like the meetings were always at 8 a.m. and I would sleep through them because like I I'm like like I woke up like an hour and a half ago. Um so yeah, it was kind of like just like people just as sketchy as me at the time. Um and then I think I When I finally got into sort of like the the Twitter crowd and like got um recognized by um I don't know, just like people in like the industry.

Play from 0:17:12 8:88:88 0:17:12 Uh they kind of could see like, Okay, yeah, you're young, but like your portfolio's good. So like let's let's do this. and they were it was always like, What the heck? You're like eighteen. Yeah. So that like extra layer, like maybe social wise, you were able to establish credibility in in a in a platform more quickly. Um, and more, maybe even more transparently than just sort of like taking gigs here and there, right?

Play from 0:17:39 8:88:88 0:17:39 Like the I think the social dynamic of getting like working for yourself ultimately or getting deals for yourself, like social is it's it's almost like a prerequisite, like you, you kind of need it. Because it establishes your voice, it establishes a place where you can show work, you can show even just experiments, and people get an insight into how you think and and you know what what you want to talk about.

Play from 0:18:04 8:88:88 0:18:04 And it's also just like uh it's one of those things too, whether it's warranted or not, that you do get this level of credibility automatically given to you just because you're posting on social and you're not afraid to throw yourself out there. Like it's it's amazing what that can do. Like I We've experienced that from a LinkedIn perspective too. Right. Where it's like people all of a sudden are just like shocked and amazed to talk to you or get to discuss things with you just because you're online and you're posting.

Play from 0:18:31 8:88:88 0:18:31 It's like, you know. Um, and I think that unlocks, you know, so much. And so there's a lot of talented people that just aren't posting and aren't putting themselves out there. And so it's interesting to see. Yeah, I think it's I've been trying to be a little bit better with my advice now that I'm like giving advice professionally in many ways. Cause every time I see like a creative or like I go to like design events and I'm like, why are you guys all working corporate? Like it makes zero sense to me. Um and I'm like, why aren't more people freelancing?

0:18:43Why social media is a freelance prerequisite

Play from 0:19:00 8:88:88 0:19:00 Um, I forget who I was talking to about this. Uh and they're like, Yeah, Jamey, of course it's like easy for you. Like you're like good at what you do, and then you're also like on social. Like to me, of course, like why would you start freelancing if you didn't have like an edge in the market already and also had like a social presence? Like that's kind of like an obvious prerequisite to me.

Play from 0:19:25 8:88:88 0:19:25 Like when you're freelancing, you have to you have to be on social. Like it's it's insane to me to even consider at this point freelancing without doing it. It's like saying I'm like a digital designer, like of course. You know, of course I'm a digital designer. and maybe like, you know, giving yourself the the freeway and the ramp to do that before you go out and do that, right? Like so if you're in-house and you maybe even want to experience working for yourself or going and doing those things, like that's the way to sort of get it.

Play from 0:19:52 8:88:88 0:19:52 You could start to test that out. It may take, you know, several months or even a year to like establish yourself, but ultimately it will pay off and it gives you that ramp to find business. People are already familiar with you. It's not a cold. sort of thing where if you don't have a digital footprint, no one knows who you are. Yeah. Was it a steady drumbeat like up until this point, like with with getting clients and getting work, or was there like that, you know, screw this, I have to go get a real job?

Play from 0:20:18 8:88:88 0:20:18 Like, you know, I'd I've been there. yeah, I've never had like a job. Um, I had a startup for like two years, so that was like, you know, that was like full time and I was getting like a salary from that. But um yeah, I've never had like a J O B and then I've never done cold outreach like ever. I think when I was like first starting, I would like uh email like agencies that they really looked up to. Um but yeah, it's been just like through X.

Play from 0:20:46 8:88:88 0:20:46 There's been a couple times where I'm like, oh maybe I should It's gotten to the point where I should think about doing cold outreach, but I am like unemployable. Yeah. and you work that way and that's you like to work in your own especially designed and creative, right? Like yeah, and branding. writing an article about this right now actually. Like I just don't think when people are like, I'm like a full time brand designer, I'm like, What do you mean what do you mean?

Play from 0:21:15 8:88:88 0:21:15 Like you make Instagram templates? Like it's not branding to me. I don't know. like if you go in-house somewhere, you're dependent on who's already there, right? Like is your boss actually gonna help you? Is that gonna be somebody that is a mentor and like puts you on a path where it feels valuable to be in-house? And then the other struggle with that is once you've been out on your own, you know, it's harder to take direction from people when you know what's possible and you're you're you're your own boss, right? Like, and I, you know, I'm just speaking from experience here too.

Play from 0:21:42 8:88:88 0:21:42 Like, I think there's a level of respect. So it's like, If I'm going in an organization, and again, not to sound like arrogant or anything, but it's just like if I feel like there are areas where I may know more than my boss, and my boss is poo-pooing on my idea, you know, how do I deal with that? You know, like I I you know, there you gotta play a whole political game there too. So it's just like an entirely different dynamic. And in that, you know, you're expending energy trying to foster relationships to feel safe or secure in your job and excel in your job.

Play from 0:22:12 8:88:88 0:22:12 when you really have full control of that when you're when you're out of house and you're doing your own thing. gagging at the thought of that. I've like never even experienced. Um, I think too, when you're yeah, when when you're freelancing too, it's a lot easier to convince twenty people to pay you thirty K than like one person to pay you like six hundred K. Like if I walked into a job and was like, Yeah, I wanna get paid I mean maybe if you're like product designer, OpenAI, like total comp, like asking someone to pay a designer salary of like five hundred K is like ludicrous.

0:22:16Freelance math: 20 clients vs one salary

Play from 0:22:43 8:88:88 0:22:43 Would make no sense. Um But as a freelancer you can do that. Our agency. thing in house is like who who is responsible for setting up what you're working on? Like if is your boss just dictating those things to you? And like also I'm thinking about me too, when I'm thinking, do I agree with this being a priority? You know, because once you've been in in-house too and been running some of these these teams, you're just like, I I don't feel like that's the right thing to be working on, you know.

Play from 0:23:11 8:88:88 0:23:11 And so you become very conflicted in-house. Maybe I'm just projecting here, but I've got Got lots of stories there. Lots of battle scars for sure. Trauma. div diva about it. Like I know like most people have jobs. And I think people like the security. And there might be a point too, like I imagine if I'm like a mom at some point, you know, just like having like a chill job somewhere um would make a lot of sense for me.

Play from 0:23:37 8:88:88 0:23:37 Um, but I think like the biggest thing I don't understand, which again comes back to like my bias of like, well, obviously you have social media if you're freelancing, is the like um consistency. But like it's literally the epitome of all your eggs are in one basket. All your eggs in like a time bombed basket of like AI layoffs. Um versus I have I have so many baskets. way to do it now at this point, especially in this this what's going on in, you know, US, especially for a younger generation where there's not a lot available. Yeah.

Play from 0:24:09 8:88:88 0:24:09 Um, you know, and if you can create your own, kill it. That's that's the way you gotta do it. this is what I got I got my sister doing basically like AI GTM AI UGC engineer whatever helping like people run marketing campaigns and like enable marketing teams to do Claude. I taught her this like six months ago. and she's already making like five K, six K, ten K a month freelancing, uh like in college. And I'm like Tell us a little more about that.

0:24:13How her sister makes $5K–$10K/month with AI

Play from 0:24:35 8:88:88 0:24:35 What it now that give give give the audience a little bit of a, you know, an idea of what that might look like for someone, you know, especially who's in college. Yeah. Um, I mean, I think now the Claude University is the new YouTube university. you can basically just ask it anything, obviously. I think like what I told my sister to do, I first showed her her Hormozi and I was like, just watch like ten of these videos. Like you're not gonna understand anything, but just start to pick up some vocabulary.

Play from 0:25:03 8:88:88 0:25:03 Like get like get to a point where you have like five questions about what he's talking about. And then go to Claude and ask those questions and then start to tell it what you're interested in, what you like, what you're confused about. And start to tell it, you know, I want to make money doing this. And it'll it'll help you. It'll get you there. And then luckily, you know, she has some like me or my boyfriend who's also like, you know, in this whole world. Uh, or you know, you can go on X, reach out to guys like you, I'm sure would answer. but just get yourself to like a starting point of like, what the heck is going on?

Play from 0:25:33 8:88:88 0:25:33 Um with whatever it is you're doing, even if you wanna become like a nurse, like just use oh thing though. Like a lot of people that are just starting to use AI, they don't even know to use AI to use AI. They don't, they don't know how that they can troubleshoot and ask questions with AI to solve the problems. And like we all know that because there's so many cool things you can do now with LLMs, like we don't have it all figured out either.

Play from 0:26:02 8:88:88 0:26:02 I'm always asking it questions. I I d you know, there's there are plenty of times where I'm even in the middle of something, building something. I'm just like, now what the fuck do I do? I have no idea. What to do from here. You know, break it down. Give me, give me simple and clear step-by-step instructions for how I do this. Right. Um, but Help. Help me. I don't know what you just did. That's that's kinda kinda where I end up about ninety percent of the time. I'm just like, what? Say that a little bit clearer for me.

Play from 0:26:29 8:88:88 0:26:29 I'm an idiot and I didn't sleep last night. a little verbose for me. Like just just give me, like, talk to like I'm five for a second. I I I want to switch. if you guys are good with it, I wanna I to sort of switch gears here. I wanna, I wanna talk about kind of what you're doing now. Um, let's let's kind of catch people up. So right now, your your title is AI creative director. I'm seeing more and more of these titles pop up, but explain what that means.

Play from 0:26:57 8:88:88 0:26:57 Okay, there we go. Explain what that means. And um, you know, what they're maybe actually responsible for so we can kind of shed some light there and go deep. I was trying to explain what a creative director is to my boyfriend last night. It's so, yeah, it's so, yeah, the definition of like AI creative director, it's it's pretty nebulous. I mean, I am just a creative director that happens to be really good at AI.

0:27:08What is an AI creative director?

Play from 0:27:22 8:88:88 0:27:22 I think right now it's basically just a search term. I think calling myself an AI creative director in like hopefully a year or two will be the same thing as calling myself like I said, like a digital designer, just like an internet designer. It's kind of just like You know, it's just gonna be what it is. Um yeah, I'm just a creative director that uses AI. Um I would say right now fifty percent of my job or like my work is still doing like brand design, design services, maybe AI services, helping people, you know, make images, logos, websites, all of that stuff.

Play from 0:27:56 8:88:88 0:27:56 my partner Jack and I, um, I can give you his at put on screen. Um, we just started a a studio called ADM. Um, so we're actively taking on clients. Um sometimes that's like really heavily AI stuff with like tons of generative backgrounds or you know, using agents to make websites. Sometimes it's like just pure Figma rectangles. Um the other 50% of my job is doing um like content.

Play from 0:28:23 8:88:88 0:28:23 So I work with a lot of AI companies or design companies to do tutorials, takes, um, sponsored posts and just like talk about their product. my audience and how I use it and and do demos and show examples, which has been really fun because it's kind of like subsidizing me learning. Um and then I get to make like super relevant content for everyone else and kind of test all these tools. So I really like doing that. And then the other 50%, which I'm I think it's it's three fifty percent at this point, um, is my course.

Play from 0:28:55 8:88:88 0:28:55 so it's in between sessions right now. But um yeah, it's called the AI Creative Director. And I kind of set out to teach myself like where I was like maybe six months a year ago. Just like how the heck do you make AI images look good? Um I know for us, like we kind of, you know, can get into flow state with like Midjourney and stuff, but for a lot of people, like they look at Midjourney uh or they look at Flora or Magnific and they literally have no idea where to start. Or, you know, they just prompt like funny cat and they're like, Why is this cat why does it look like AI?

0:28:58What the AI Creative Director course teaches

Play from 0:29:25 8:88:88 0:29:25 Um so it's kind of to like speak to know, those creatives marketing people that just like can't seem to get started with AI. Um, so it has, you know, five principles I go through. I forget the original question, but yeah, that's what I'm up to. Happy to go into any of those things. Yeah. to this. So so you ran a cohort on Maven about this, and you're kind of taking this now onto your own site and you're gonna three of them now?

Play from 0:29:52 8:88:88 0:29:52 You've you've completed three cohorts now? That's awesome. So you've got sort of like the market fit here, and you know, even even I would say like I I've done enough of these trains where it's I I really resonate with a lot of this. You know, there's a whole vernacular. That you need to learn with this stuff. There are so many little tips and tricks that you only really acquire just with reps. but it's super cool. So you're gonna you're gonna have sort of this new course on your website this time, which I think we've also got pulled up here.

Play from 0:30:21 8:88:88 0:30:21 So jamiegannon.com. Yeah. As it always is. Portfolio is never done. But yeah, this is a, I just moved from brand dash sprints to Jamey Gannon. So kind of like doubling down on like the personal brand of it all. Um, this is like a new new thing for me. Um going back to Jamey Gannon. It's been it's been a few years. Yeah, this is so outdated.

Play from 0:30:46 8:88:88 0:30:46 Ha ha ha. This is like October. I made that in like October of 2025. Um, you know, I was Yeah. It was it was funny. I was looking back at cause I was like, I've been listening to you guys for years. And I was looking back, I was like, I started listening at like episode six and I was like, shit, you guys have actually been posting a long time. Um I didn't realize that. But I I looked back and like the first episode I had watched was only a year old.

Play from 0:31:15 8:88:88 0:31:15 And I was like, first of all, how? How are how are mood boards only a year old? I feel like it's it's a paradigm I've like lived in. That's crazy. Yeah, I think so. I think so. Which is insane. Cause like I spend most of my life in Midjourney mood boards, you know. but yeah, just I have to say too, like your podcast, this is like my favorite podcast right now.

Play from 0:31:40 8:88:88 0:31:40 Cause I love like just putting you guys on when I'm like literally doing anything, working, doing the dishes. Cause you guys just like Or you are working like I would be working. And you actually go through the shit that like is needed to say about Midjourney and all these like little super super nerdy stuff about like srefs or, you know, different parameters that like no one else does. ah which I'm so grateful for because when I was trying to really crack Midjourney, which obviously I have, I really needed like you guys to like do all that in the weeds testing.

Play from 0:32:14 8:88:88 0:32:14 So I'm like super grateful to to be on and for all all the all the alpha you've given to the community. Yeah. Love it love to hear that. It's a again, we will never we'll never not feel good when someone says they listen, so we appreciate it. Yeah. like we, yeah, like the the we went like granular level on the Midjourney stuff because it was, you know, initially we started out just focused on Midjourney. And that was that was how we met. It was just focused on Midjourney.

Play from 0:32:40 8:88:88 0:32:40 So it was AI image generation, but we had an affinity for Midjourney. We just thought Midjourney is clearly the best option that's available. And it still is in in terms of like the creative, you know, direction and and sort of the different. variety of looks that just are so unique and personalized and the combination, you know, the unique combinations that you can create out of it. and yeah, man, Midjourney's, Midjourney's Midjourney's our heart.

0:33:05Is Krea catching Midjourney?

Play from 0:33:07 8:88:88 0:33:07 getting up there. I haven't I haven't tried as much as I wanted to because I know creatives have really locked it, locked it down the way that I've kind of like locked in my flow with Midjourney. I feel like I I'm a little bit lazy because I even though Midjourney like obviously has its quirks, I like know how to work with it now. So learning a new learning a new tool is always kind of like, oh, I would rather just do what it w what I'm comfortable in. But Krea has some stuff coming. Krea has some stuff coming. I went to their event last night.

Play from 0:33:34 8:88:88 0:33:34 Yeah. And Krea 2 has for a lot of creatives looked like really interesting. I think like Blacklight, I was listening to to like catch up yesterday. The Krea's a good team. They're they're an interesting bunch over there. Uh they're very unique. I had dinner with them a couple months ago, maybe maybe more than a couple months ago, but just like talking to them and being like, you guys are just you guys just feel like you're you're in a living room vibe coding this whole thing and it's just really good.

Play from 0:34:00 8:88:88 0:34:00 And I like I like how they approach things. I think Krea at least Krea 1 was one of the closest models I saw to Midjourney in terms of creativity and sort of style. I really respect their team. Um at the first Krea event when they were a couple weeks out from launching Krea 2, um, they were like, Yeah, we just felt like it was lame to just be a rapper. And I was like, Thank you. Yeah.

Play from 0:34:26 8:88:88 0:34:26 They're like the only way to like really, you know, be a presence in this world, or I don't know what exactly their goal is, but something along those lines is like we have to make our own model. Like we can't just work with like, you know. the crap we get from anyone else. I think it's good for it's good for the technology. Um and the stuff they're making's great. So I I love I don't know, are they like a foundation lab? Model? What's the word?

Play from 0:34:52 8:88:88 0:34:52 I love that. well no I was saying I haven't I yeah, I'm saying I haven't I've been I'm so entrenched in Midjourney that I haven't tried Krea 2 as much as I want to. I I would like to get into Krea too. I I do think they got some interesting components of that. And and w remember when you know we talked earlier like on those early episodes too, like no one had really defined their lane yet either.

Play from 0:35:19 8:88:88 0:35:19 Right. Like so you had all these image models. There's like, are they all just gonna continue to be strictly image models? You know, and what are gonna be their unique differentiator? Because this is like a sat it was becoming a very saturated space. And then you started to see like some of them turn into the aggregators and then Yeah. know, Pika you know, Pika leaned into social and you like you had all the like Luma changed, Krea changed, you know, like everything changed around it, um, which was interesting to see.

Play from 0:35:46 8:88:88 0:35:46 Because at one point they were all kinda like, Well, which one do we use? And I think some of realized like this is probably not the fight we want to fight. Right. I think I will say I'm happy that all of these companies, rappers or models or whatever, we're getting away finally from that it's so easy, fast and cheap to do this. Yeah. Cause it's not. And we lie, like they lied to like a whole generation of, you know, early AI explorers that I think really because I see this in my course, the whole reason I made my course is like it's actually not easy, fast, and cheap.

0:35:53The "easy, fast, cheap" AI lie

Play from 0:36:16 8:88:88 0:36:16 It's actually really hard, which is why you need to like treat it like a skill. and I think we're finally getting away from that marketing that just literally serves no one. Cause like the users come in and then they're they're expecting a one shot because they're told it's gonna be a one shot and then it's not a one shot. And then obviously the tools are amazing, but their first experience like just sucks. And I think some companies are solving this by like doing a bunch of templated stuff, which I think works for like a certain audience, and I think over time like it's going to get a lot better.

Play from 0:36:45 8:88:88 0:36:45 Um, but I'm glad that the conversation And the positioning for these companies starting to get a little bit more nuanced. Um, it's just terrible for the space. And that's the interesting thing about, you know, we we probably were down on Midjourney for a little bit during V7 for a while when it was just like felt like nothing was going on and it just felt like it was like this is they're not doing anything. And I personally I was I wasn't on there as much anymore because it just felt like I've used this model for eight months.

Play from 0:37:11 8:88:88 0:37:11 I I'm like, there's nothing new to it. It's I get the same stuff every time. I'm not really trying to explore it 'cause it's nothing new. But like their messaging has been the most consistent of any tool or company out there. It's been the same thing since they started. Right. It it hasn't really changed. And it's always been like, This is for the community, this is to make beautiful stuff. That's it. It doesn't have to be anything more than that. No. you know, and then you know, I think that's part of it too, right?

Play from 0:37:37 8:88:88 0:37:37 Like our our needs with with those tools changed because we started to to do more and more client work. And then clients have a different appetite. When you get into to bigger brands, they maybe got to use approved models or, you know, like they want to use uh a tool that is an aggregator, right? Just from like a budget standpoint. And then Midjourney, I think like there's one thing there too, where there are some organizations that That have multiple accounts within that org, but there's not really like this really good team setup, collaborative environment in there that I think they need to fix, at least to some degree.

Play from 0:38:10 8:88:88 0:38:10 Um, even though they're not sort of catering to that. But like that's what chat kind of did for a little bit there. Like they had those chat rooms or the what they what they call it, rooms, I think it was. And at least you could, yeah, you could you could kind of be, you know, be in the same room with people. And so they could see prompts, they could iterate off the prompts. And that kind of felt like the closest they got to that. What was uh Jamey going back, I I have to ask I have to ask this one forever to for every single person we have on. What was the what was the moment when like was it, you know when you were like, this is this is my thing or this is like I have to I have to go down this hole?

0:38:43Three moments that hooked Jamey on AI

Play from 0:38:47 8:88:88 0:38:47 Um, I was trying to make stock photography. Uh my boyfriend and I have a supplement company um called Portal. It's a sleep supplement. Um, and it's like dark mode, it's like really sexy, it's like luxury. And I wanted to make product photography, but because it's like bootstrapped and it's kind of just like a aside, like an experimental project for us, we're not gonna spend like 5k Um, and I also wanted to have like, okay, if I have a picture of a guy sleeping, I would love for it to be like my aesthetic and like cool.

Play from 0:39:14 8:88:88 0:39:14 Um so I started playing with Midjourney for that. Um and doing product photography in Midjourney V6 without pre-Nano Banana, pre-GPT is like kind of psychotic. doing product photography. so you can like imagine like how much time I spent in it. but once I started to kind of get those first like nicely quasi realistic surrealist images, I was like, okay, this is this is amazing.

Play from 0:39:40 8:88:88 0:39:40 so that was kind of like the first inflection point is like product photography at Midjourney. Um, I think the first time I really used it for a client project, um, it was the day the first GPT image came out. So not GPT image two. I don't even know I don't even know what it was called. It was the first one after Dolly that was ac actually good. Yes. I was uh the day it came out, I was scouting for an illustrator for a client and then we were able to do everything in ChatGPT.

Play from 0:40:12 8:88:88 0:40:12 So it was a it's a marketplace called Trade Posts. And it was like you take a pair of Jordans and then you put it in this like cartoon illustration style that we had amalgamated from Pinterest. Um and we were able to create an entire asset library um just doing that, which at the time didn't work very well, but we we ended up getting it. and then I think the third inflection point for me was you know, this might have been like Well into kind of like V7, so like October of twenty twenty five.

Play from 0:40:40 8:88:88 0:40:40 I uh my boyfriend was starting to see sort of like the Higgsfield of it all, the like AI UGC. They were really starting to get into like right after Nano Banana launched, it's like starting to get very serious about like what these image models can do. I was like, let me do some like let me see if I can make like a like a headshot. and then I posted like that um that array that's on my website still, which is so old, of like me arrested, me on the plane. And it got like a hundred thousand views on X.

Play from 0:41:05 8:88:88 0:41:05 And I was like, Oh, maybe I am good at this. so yeah, those were my three kind of like big hook points, I would say, with AI. and there's been some client moments in between, but it hasn't really been until like even after my course, like not until this year that I'm really like, okay, I know how to do branding with AI images, I know I know when, I know what tools to go to.

Play from 0:41:31 8:88:88 0:41:31 Like, I feel like I'm really kind of like using it the way that I would use Figma. Yeah. I mean, you you two are both Figma nerds. So you you guys could probably jam on that. Are you is your what what's your flow right now with with tools specifically? I mean, it it it sounds like you're still in a lot of ways, your start is Midjourney and you're going deep in in mood boards. And I don't know if there's there's something that you want to visually show us of like how you sort of approach that because I I I feel like mood boards could be one of those things that just sit there for a lot of people and they don't really fully leverage them.

Play from 0:42:05 8:88:88 0:42:05 But I feel like you're a great example of somebody that is using them to the fullest extent. So, you know, with with that said, like, um, when do you think about using those? And like, do you use those all the time? And like maybe we even what's your, what's your approach to how you, how you leverage them inside the tool? Yeah, it depends on the brand and it depends on like the project. so typically if I'm doing let's say like a uh like my recent case study for like CXO, they're like a an agency that helps people, it's very meta, helps people get AI enabled.

0:42:23How to build brand mood boards

Play from 0:42:38 8:88:88 0:42:38 Um the mood boards I do are more like design focused, like actually in Figma, Pinterest, Cosmos, we'll do kind of like I guess I can share my screen. Um we'll do like the brand mood boards. That kind of covered, you know, the whole vibe. Um, and then this is the mood board they ended up choosing. Uh it's called like low res. And then we start to get into like what are the actual images behind it.

Play from 0:43:04 8:88:88 0:43:04 Um, so I'm not gonna have Midjourney, you know, do this whole thing. Maybe eventually Nano Banana can do that. But um we'll look at what are the actual like background images. And then from there, we'll probably do like um either a secondary mood board for to go into Midjourney. either as like SREFs or like their mood board feature. that is like, you know, not always like the the mood boards that you make in Midjourney aren't like the literal outputs that you always want.

Play from 0:43:33 8:88:88 0:43:33 You kinda have to go uh in like a roundabout way sometimes, which I'm sure you guys understand. Um yeah. Do you do you mean like sorry, for just for for anyone who might be listening and interested in that, do you mean like making mood boards from like specific outputs and then like using that as like your guide or or like doing piecemeal mood boards to sort of like combine a a a vibe? me try and find an example from this project. Obviously I on the spot here.

Play from 0:44:00 8:88:88 0:44:00 So sorry for sort of doing that. But yeah, I think this is like super interesting because this is a a different approach that I don't know that we've covered on this podcast. But I I think Jamey really has infused this as a part of the process that she uses most of the time here. Yeah. So for this project, like funny enough, um, sometimes with Midjourney you have to literally it's like the diamond mines, like trying to figure out the style.

Play from 0:44:27 8:88:88 0:44:27 and for this one, Jack actually was the one that ended up cracking this. But let me like close out all of my freaking text messages and That's a good one. It's I'm gonna I'm gonna steal that one for test. So we really loved this like pixel motif. Um so that was kind of like the mandate that like Jack and I had. Was like, all right, pixel backgrounds. Um, you know, the founder of this agency, her name's Claire Vo and she's an amazing podcast, How I AI, but she's like she's a woman, she's a mom.

Play from 0:44:58 8:88:88 0:44:58 Like we want to like bring in some like more like girly, like pink. Like, how can we kind of like soften it so it's not so, you know, boys club of a brand? Um, so we were like, what if we try out some like flower stuff? Um, and it literally just started with this ended up being kind of like the final sref that we ended up using. But like um, it's just one of these ones that we made. But it's no mood board, no personalization, no stylizing.

Play from 0:45:28 8:88:88 0:45:28 Like when Jack sent this to me, I was like, Are you sure? Like can you send me like a full screenshot? He's like, no, it's literally just this. Uh now of course with this um process, let me see if I can find the actual step by step how to make this. Um just curious. Or did you find like a reference that you then used and then got a result that you then used as sort of like a seed and used as a mood board?

Play from 0:46:00 8:88:88 0:46:00 Or like how did you approach that? There was actually this one flower image that I had. So I think this was the original sref that we used or that Jack used. And then, you know, over time we kind of like cooked it up uh and then started getting towards like final colors like in Figma. And then ended up finding an sref through that Midjourney process to then be kind of like the final style code, which by the way, this never happens that you only have one S ref to start the process.

0:46:27Midjourney + Figma: the pixel shader pipeline

Play from 0:46:28 8:88:88 0:46:28 Um but that's what it ended up being for this project. So with this project too, ah the images obviously didn't come out pixelized. one thing AI is like really bad at is like keeping like a dither style in my experience. So we usually need to layer on um some sort of shader, filter, whatever. so in Midjourney, we would generate all these images, and then Jack would remove the background, and then there's a plug-in, which I should have like loaded up um called There actually might be a Figma shader in between two to get the color right.

Play from 0:47:02 8:88:88 0:47:02 And then you pixelate the image. Yeah. Um we had to do like three files for this because it kept getting so heavy. And then I guess you remove background again. and there's like a this is like the process. Yeah, there's a shader involved as well. So start within Midjourney, make sure it's the exact brand colors, remove background, XYZ PNG, bring it back in, pixel plugin, uh, and then you could vectorize it too.

Play from 0:47:29 8:88:88 0:47:29 if you want, which would like kill your computer. Uh so we did this for like, I don't know how many images this is, like sixty or so images. and then for this one, um, Claire is like yeah, sh she's like uh super enabled and they also have a great designer on their team. Um but they actually just went and like made these in Midjourney and then I made another shader.

Play from 0:47:55 8:88:88 0:47:55 'Cause I was like Just it's again, it's really hard. And also because Claire is um, you know, she literally runs like three businesses with agents. I really wanted to optimize for things to be you know, done in Vercel, done agentically, or she could rebuild it herself in like whatever flow she wants to do.

Play from 0:48:22 8:88:88 0:48:22 So I had originally built this, I figured out this shader for this particular style in Flora. But I was like, I don't want to like gate the experience there. So I like, let me see if I just build it myself. Um and yeah, you gotta play a little bit. Um to get it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's dope. Yeah. But this is like a good tip too. I think in the past, I would have for whatever reason tried to get this to work in Midjourney.

Play from 0:48:51 8:88:88 0:48:51 And like try to not, you're not not not only are you nailing like uh the exact half tone texture, the color, like the posturization, the vibe of like what's actually happening in the image. Like there's so many things to manage, not to mention just like slop. So if you go and edit it or upscale it, like forget it. So I was like Let's just make something where like you could literally upload any image. Like this image is not at all in their brand style. It doesn't look like it's shot uh, you know, in like this kind of like seventies pre-tech, whatever.

0:49:06When you should not use AI

Play from 0:49:19 8:88:88 0:49:19 But then as soon as I have this like filter, it it looks like it. Um so I guess kind of point I'm making is like you don't always have to use AI for everything. Like, and you actually shouldn't. Like AI is definitely still bad at a lot of stuff. Um, it's like one thing I teach in the course is like use the right tool for the right job. Photoshop is often the right tool still. Like when I'm doing like heavy, heavy production work that's like, you know, it's gonna be for like a brand's website that's like needs to be accurate.

Play from 0:49:45 8:88:88 0:49:45 Like most of my time is spent in Photoshop still, like fixing like fingernails and all that garbage. I like that you called that out. Yeah. Yeah. That's like that's something. That's a good call. Yeah. said that's very small one sentence, but I think probably a lot of people can take something away from that is don't gate the don't gate the experience. That was really, you know, like that's a lot of people will book past that where it's like, I made this in Flora, I'll just have to get this team on Flora to use it. Like you're taking the extra step to make this portable for everyone.

Play from 0:50:13 8:88:88 0:50:13 And I think that's like a, you know, small thing. But these are the types of things that, you know, brands are looking for or businesses are looking for now to like keep you on or to keep hiring you. If you take that extra step, right? about you, Jamey, too, is I've noticed just in in the the short time that we got to do a project together and then seeing this is I think you're not afraid to just create the tool, right? Like you you're you're embracing AI to the point where if there's not a current fix for it, you're gonna you're gonna just go ahead and create the fix for it.

Play from 0:50:43 8:88:88 0:50:43 And I think that's This is a new behavior I've learned. I was I didn't s but also I just want to throw this in there. I like that you said something about being stubborn in Midjourney because I think we all three resonate with that too. And there are parts of that that are frustrating. It's also really a a learning experience because you know, you know, Rory always loves to push where the edge is, but you find where that edge is with the tech.

Play from 0:51:11 8:88:88 0:51:11 And when you run those reps over and over and you are stubborn with it. You really know for sure whether or not it's something you can do in there. And, you know, there is a level too where it's like, if I'm comfortable in this tool, it's okay to be a little stubborn, right? Because it's it's my sweet spot and I know how to manipulate this tool to the best of my ability. So I just thought that that's like a really interesting thing too, because maybe there are people that are stubborn with the tools. And there's a case to be made where don't be stubborn, but at the same time, like the stubbornness can can teach you some elements of what's possible and what's not as well.

Play from 0:51:44 8:88:88 0:51:44 Yeah. Yeah. I I agree with that. Nice looking mood board list there. mood board. That's a lot of that's a lot of I like that. Yeah. let me let's see that. so there's um there's two ways that I use mood boards and teaching Midjourney is very, very hard to teach. Um, but I found like there's sort of like the style mood boards, which sometimes are really good. Sometimes srefs do a better job at like injecting that style.

0:51:53Two ways to use Midjourney mood boards

Play from 0:52:14 8:88:88 0:52:14 It also depends on if you're using V7 versus V8. It's a little bit different. So there's sort of like blanket style mood boards that get you like color, saturation, vibe. So I always kind of have like a layer of this oftentimes. But then something I've been teaching my students more recently in the past few months is there's mood boards that this is hard to explain, that you can inject like certain elements, like it'll like start to bleed through.

Play from 0:52:39 8:88:88 0:52:39 So for example, if I make an image with this mood board, um, a lot of these images are like AI versions of me. But like the women will look not, they won't be me, but they'll look sort of like me. They'll have like the like, you know. Gaunt kind of face, they'll like the same color hair. Also, if you do like a mood board that is like what's one I have? I have one that's like real skin. If you add this mood board into like anything you're doing, it'll probably make it a profile and it'll probably focus on skin.

Play from 0:53:08 8:88:88 0:53:08 So you can do that with makeup, you could do that with fashion. There's like a really interesting way that like the mood boards kind of bleed, which I think like we kind of feel it. Like you you can kind of you know exactly what this mood board will mood board will do. and as you like combine them and layer them, um I think I'm calling this like style layering or something in my course right now. Um this is where like you really kind of feel like a magician where you're like just throwing or maybe like uh like you're making potions kind of in Midjourney.

Play from 0:53:39 8:88:88 0:53:39 like a little alchemy. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's and and it feels unique. You know, like the the the mood board stuff really injects a level, level of uniqueness into the craft, right? So you've got personalization that can do that. You've got the style ref that can do that. And then you've got mood boards that can do that. And so, like, I think we had an episode too a long time ago on mood boards where we were talking about like almost like these little like elements, right?

Play from 0:54:04 8:88:88 0:54:04 Maybe you've got ones that are just, you know, film. Film grain and noise, right? And then you've got like these other little sort of finishes um that sort of you can layer on top and combine to other mood boards. And now that I'm thinking about it, I have not tried this, but I'd be very curious to try doing something like that, but with a transparent background and then comp and then combining another background. So it's not pulling any of the image material other than the treatment for it.

Play from 0:54:34 8:88:88 0:54:34 Uh I I might actually have to try that after this, but super interesting. I love everyone's sort of own path with mood boards and how they use it. Cause there's times where I'm like, I want to make a fifty image mood board and just dump all this in there, hope works. And there's times where I'm like, I just want to use these three images and hope this thing just fires, or I just want to use a aerial view camera, you know, aerial camera view. And that's all I want to come through and just like stack up. But then I've been finding like I used Pinterest a lot less prior to the mood boards, and I was like, Let me go Back into Pinterest and find like I've found a lot of like vintage 90s branding stuff that I love, like the colors, the sort of like the ugly design patterns, things like that, and like throw those into mood boards now to have fun.

Play from 0:55:18 8:88:88 0:55:18 But it's you know what, this is one thing I wanted to ask you too, not to not to to sway from Midjourney, but like when you're working with these clients now that are looking for that know you're doing design and using AI, is it is the constriction there? Are they like you We need to like very precise. Are they letting you sort of run wild? Because AI will let you run wild, um, to get to that point. if I'm doing like branding work, like stuff for CXO is like it could be a real illustration, it could be not.

Play from 0:55:48 8:88:88 0:55:48 it doesn't really matter. Um, me optimizing the flow is always like for their benefit. so yeah, I'm I'm definitely allowed to go wild when it comes to like background images, stock photos, things like that. the only time I'm like I feel like I'm not, which I haven't done a lot of honestly in the past couple of months is when I'm doing like If I like product photography for e com, uh, especially if it's like apparel, it's like, you know, we're really like sort of like by the book on like how everything looks, planning out the shot lists, stuff like that.

Play from 0:56:20 8:88:88 0:56:20 but yeah, I don't really share my Midjourney process with clients because they would be like terrified. then they might they might just be like, Well how what else can you do? Hey. Well what about this? They th that's the that's the problem I find with the Midjourney stuff. Yeah. uh They may be my clients still think like design is magic. So like yeah.

0:56:44What top AI creatives do differently

Play from 0:56:49 8:88:88 0:56:49 So I want to stay with Midjourney for a second, but I do want to like ask you this question because I think it's just an interesting one. Everybody now, right, has access to these these tools. These the everybody can access Midjourney. Everybody can access Nano Banana, Reve, whatever whatever, whatever it is. Krea, I mean, what are what are you seeing or what do you believe sort of the the the one percenters are doing that?

Play from 0:57:15 8:88:88 0:57:15 What what makes somebody in a in a one percent in this kind of category? Do you are you talking like like AI creators or are you talking like designers that use AI? Yeah, I think like any creative that's using AI, maybe we maybe we like generalize it a bit there. Like what are what are what have you noticed? Are there any patterns that you see and and or attributes that seem to top the list?

Play from 0:57:45 8:88:88 0:57:45 I think they're they use LLMs a lot. not even just like for prompting, but like they're doing like their proposals in Claude. Um, or you know, they're managing their emails with it, they're doing personal stuff with it. So I think anyone that's actually good at AI is good at like the whole stack essentially. And they're like fully AI pilled in like every aspect of their work. Um and I think again, kind of going back to what I teach in my course, like AI is such a skill.

Play from 0:58:14 8:88:88 0:58:14 And like for me, now that I've started doing a little bit more vibe coding and stuff and just knowing how to iterate and how to prompt and like when it's gonna mess up, like I've learned that through, you know, in kind of a roundabout way, learned that through like doing Midjourney stuff, like how to get better at AI. So I think overall AI is a skill. Obviously, there's like more niche things, like when you start doing like vibe coding, like knowing how to do like PRDs and like how to understand like what Is actually going to scale and when to use Vercel and when to use Supabase or whatever it is.

Play from 0:58:45 8:88:88 0:58:45 and of course Midjourney and creative direction, that's its its whole on rabbit hole. But I think people that are really good at AI are really good at AI in all ways. I mean I think like the psychos are probably still like using the comfy UI and like starting to like do like I've never I've opened it one time and I was like, Well, I don't think this is for me. Um yeah. thousand hours here? Yeah. Yeah. But yeah.

Play from 0:59:10 8:88:88 0:59:10 I guess that's probably that's probably the first thing that comes to mind is like they're not just using it in one way, they're using it in every single way. Um like I recently got I'm friends with like some people at at OpenAI, so I got uh Jack like free Codex and he's literally rebuilt like Spline Figma Canva in like four days. We were building this tool for um CXO.

Play from 0:59:35 8:88:88 0:59:35 Um, let me see if I can find it. Um and I originally had him kind of get started on it. How do I how do I how does Vercel work? Um This is this is good though. Like this is this this is the mentality of the show. If there if there's not a solution for it, you build it. If there's something that is a solution and maybe it's an expensive subscription that is a prime candidate to recreate yourself in this, you know, killing SAS era, this is it.

0:59:44Build the tool when the workflow doesn't exist

Play from 1:00:05 8:88:88 1:00:05 Like go and create those things and these these micro tools that are specific to the creator. This is this is the phase we're in. I think everything is custom. Everything is leaning custom. Everybody's got slightly different needs, right? And whereas before you almost had to confine yourself to whatever tool or software you're using, now you almost just break the walls down and create your own possibilities that are specific to you.

Play from 1:00:31 8:88:88 1:00:31 Yeah. So this is one tool. Um basically because the CXO like design system is so modular, I'll pull up some of these templates. I was like, there's gotta be a way that we can make like where the frick is a template. like it's very, you know, AI readable, uh the templates. you know, just like image, background, text. I was like, there's gotta be a way that we can make this so that way Claire can like agentically be like, okay, here's my blog post, it's already written in Claude or helped.

Play from 1:01:00 8:88:88 1:01:00 By Claude, you know, uploading it to the their CMS, like generate contextually a blog post image or a social image based on this. So I was like, Jack, like why don't you build just like a version of Canva for them that could be like agentically used or maybe even just used by like a lay person that's not a designer um to make stuff easily. And then I like literally can't even navigate this. And I was because there's so many things. And I'm like, Jack, you rebuilt Figma.

Play from 1:01:29 8:88:88 1:01:29 Like we have Figma for this. which was like so funny. He was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so we ended up kind of like departing from this. but he did this in like a day. and you can like save it. There's like different ratios, different templates. This is like obviously still like a whip. Um, and then this is kind of like the second version of it. so you can kind of like shuffle through different designs, you can like upload images, change it.

Play from 1:01:55 8:88:88 1:01:55 Um, you know, I'm still still sucks right now. but for, you know, the right brand, I think that this is like could be really useful. You know, if you think about maybe like a crypto brand or something that they just like don't have a designer, they're not gonna have a designer for like a long time. Um, something like this that makes it uh a little bit easier to do design work that's not Figma.

Play from 1:02:21 8:88:88 1:02:21 system assets listed in there. So you have the icons, you have the background. So it's like a it's a mix and match. You can just go in there and pull stuff and create. That's awesome. That's really smart. I I I like that. I haven't I haven't seen the I haven't seen like a f almost like a design system sort of picker before in that sense. Um very smart. It'll get there. That's these open loops, you know, you just need to spend more time on it.

Play from 1:02:47 8:88:88 1:02:47 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. And it's never done. It's like never done. It's never done. guys you guys just need to have Jack on too 'cause he can show you all the tools he's built. He built like a a three D tool for himself. He he got tired of Jitter having bad vector control, so he built a vector animator. like I did I did something like relatively crazy one night when I was when I was, you know, lack of sleep.

Play from 1:03:16 8:88:88 1:03:16 I I said to I said to Claude in like a total stupor, I'm like, I'm tired of RGB and I'm tired of hex codes. And I'm like, I want to interact with colors in a different way. And it was like, Well, how do you well, what are you thinking? And I'm like, I don't know, man. I'm just tired of RGB. I'm tired of putting in values. I'm tired of, you know, uh, you know, CMYK. I'm like, I want to. I want like everything looks so 2D flat and static. Like every color, you know, when you look at the color wheel and you're just like, I hate it all.

Play from 1:03:43 8:88:88 1:03:43 I don't want any of it. Yeah. And I'm like, so I'm like, how about like I wanted I want to take color into account, but then I also want to take color into account like on surface. Like a brown looks different on you know, wood panels versus it does on a tree leaf or like a tree, uh, sorry, like a dead leaf, right? Like the browns look different, it might be the same CMYK. or RGB, but it looks different from the material and the lighting standpoint. So it built like this crazy tool.

Play from 1:04:09 8:88:88 1:04:09 And it was with then I was like, Can we do it? Can we add head tracking? So like when I look at it from a different angle, like depending on the light and material, I might have to pull it up because it's an it's an old it's an artifact that I I'd had was looking for the other day and I was like, Where did I build this? Well, that I did build, I did build a uh the other thing was a like a color contrast sort of like theory in that for for design. It's buried in my chats. So it was like by science, like what are the if I choose this color, give me like the con the contrasting and harmonizing colors based on like with sliders and everything.

Play from 1:04:36 8:88:88 1:04:36 So I could always find like the most vivid contrast for performance marketing. So if it's like background is X color, what's the copy of the font gonna be? Right. Um, you know, I know. some of that stuff, but sometimes the pairings are pretty I'm like, oh, well it's just you know, it's like if you're sliding one way on the color slider, it's going the opposite way at the same time and it's sort of like mathematically maps. but it's it's cool. I gotta find this stuff.

Play from 1:05:04 8:88:88 1:05:04 It it does. I hate it. want all the sat like I don't like that all the saturation is on the outer rim of the wheel and then like this whole middle part that is basically like there's so much good I don't know. Am I sharing right now? stuff in there, but it's like, let me just drag this just like a millimeter and the color changes so drastically. Damn it. I can like one shot color palettes now, which is really cool. is crazy. I was never a color person and now every single brand I do is so colorful, I don't know what happened. Hold on.

Play from 1:05:30 8:88:88 1:05:30 Um but I am like I'm an HSB stan. I like interact like mainly I'll like go and I'll pick a color by eye, or I'll pick something from like the mood board and then I'll adjust it with like HSB. It's not in Chrome. hold on. the I didn't find the exact tool. Um numbers. HSB with numbers, right? I like and I'm like it needs to be darker, I will just like do the whatever the B. This will this will be done. Okay. that. Yeah.

Play from 1:05:55 8:88:88 1:05:55 I can't guess I can't guess like hex codes or or or H codes though, or whatever it is. Pew. but like aren't i is there a s is there actually a system like a predictable type of system where you could guess hex codes though? Sorry. I don't even know. Okay. z it's zero to F, right? All right. So I think it's probably an axis. So if there's more Fs then it's wider. That was really good. I wanna be like All right. it called like a So weird.

Play from 1:06:29 8:88:88 1:06:29 I think it's something, yeah, that's based on a zero to what, I guess nine and then a and then an A to F, right? I think you're right though. Or you guess like you guess pantone or something. Share. Yeah. Okay. So like A A zero A zero would be like I think like a dark blue. But like this one, yeah, this is like the color picker with like the material and the material and the lighting direction and the head tracking.

Play from 1:07:01 8:88:88 1:07:01 So I could get to like a certain point. It also has like wavelength in there. It's really nerdy kind of stuff, but I just was trying to find these more unique color angles. Um, and this, you know, it says right up there enable head tracking was pretty funny when I was doing that. I was like, Why? Like looking at it from here and it's it's changing and I'm like, that's all while but it's like again, like you see, like oil on asphalt is like a preset. Like that's one, you know, it's it looks different. That that chromatic reflection looks different when it, you know, when it's wet like that versus when oil is just oil not on the street.

Play from 1:07:35 8:88:88 1:07:35 Like it's just in it's in a white bowl. It looks different, right? So there's certain a beetle shell, right? Like you're gonna look when you have that that sort of with these surfaces, sir? Yeah. at the cars, right? I was trying this is what like there's a few things I was trying to do. Like when you look at the cars that have the multicolor paint, when you're like, I walk to the left and it's purple, I walk to the right, it's green. Right. I was trying to um do you remember those those sort of like holograms that used to be on everything, like when you were kids?

Play from 1:08:05 8:88:88 1:08:05 Like really like like 2D flat. Yeah, but like if you look at it from the left side, it would be Like a cat, and if you went to the right side, it would be a dog. Like like a little shiny like a little shiny card like cardboard not cardboard, card texture. I don't know how to describe it. I was trying to see if there was a way to build that with AI. So from like if I could get yeah.

Play from 1:08:31 8:88:88 1:08:31 yeah. So I was I was trying to figure out my own way around it. I didn't get there, but there's like a framer effect that does that. But I mean if you want like if you literally want like a card that like does that effect digitally, yeah. Maybe not maybe not with head tracking though. I don't know. there's like a picture, like a frame company now selling images that do that. So you you buy it and then you put it up and then it does that when you walk by it also.

Play from 1:08:58 8:88:88 1:08:58 Yeah. It's like the kind of like the Mona Lisa how the eyes move with you kind of thing. Like I'm I'm trying to I just wanted something that was a little bit different. I was trying to do something for my my website that doesn't exist. And I was like, this is, you know, all things that I was trying to play with. And then, you know, this one was just something that came out of it. And I'm just tired of c I'm tired. I'm sure if anyone here has done enough designing, you've done, you know, ten plus years, Jamey. We've done similar. It's just like I'm so tired of the same stuff all the time.

Play from 1:09:25 8:88:88 1:09:25 Tired of the same fonts, right? like typography that I look through all the time, but this is the this is the mathematical one, which is the the color harmony or the color contrast. So you put in, you know, hex color and or just pick from it. And if you if you're able to slide this stuff, like you'd see like it just moves around the wheel in the mathematic direction of where it should be. So yeah. Yeah. So it it brings out like optimal like these are these are the harmonies, I believe.

Play from 1:09:52 8:88:88 1:09:52 Yeah. So you see like again, you have like this neon highlighter yellow with a very soft pastel purple, which that wouldn't have made sense. But when you start to layer the stuff together, it looks really good. Um, you know, then on the contrasting side, like there was always a few that were that would uh sort of like surprise me. But it's cool. I mean, it's just a fun tool. this is such a diagnosable conversation. Yeah, right.

Play from 1:10:21 8:88:88 1:10:21 Yeah. Yeah, this is dope. This is dope. That's cool. I just like color. Like I'm I like color. Yeah. for sure. I brought it into Figma as a little tool and now it's like it's in there and I use it 'cause we're always trying to build like visually from performance marketing, right? Like you have to stand out on on the feed. It's a lot of times it's static. How do I make something pop legitimately scientifically?

Play from 1:10:47 8:88:88 1:10:47 Not just white on black. You know what I mean? Like I'm trying to scientifically make it pop more. What background color do I need to use with what? depth maps too. Yeah. It's it's all science at the end of the day. Yeah. We react to certain things. You know, if I I like to place I like in the performance side of marketing, the performance market, like small errors now. Like I like it's not perfectly centered text, just slightly off.

Play from 1:11:15 8:88:88 1:11:15 Because you just like why you just look at it. Why is it like that? And then doesn't matter now. You're looking at the ad. Right. So things like that. But not to sidetrack us too much, just you know, that there there has been some uh I guess moments of clarity here. we're tool like we need to have a whole episode just on like these these tools that we've created too. I mean like I mean this is this is nuts. So we do want to get to we do want to get to Midjourney here because Midjourney dropped V8.2 edit model like I don't know, was it I saw it last night?

1:11:28Midjourney V8.2 Edit: first live tests

Play from 1:11:50 8:88:88 1:11:50 So not didn't give us a lot of time before this episode, which I think is is is both good and um fun here because I think I I ran some initial tests that we can just kind of go through and diagnose. And then we could also run some stuff on the fly here. You know, in these edit models, right? There's a lot that you can ask for and there's a lot to sort of test. So I think like I I took a crack at maybe five or six things, but we need to really understand like, does is this good enough to bring people back into tool and to stay in tool for things like this?

Play from 1:12:24 8:88:88 1:12:24 Because what has happened, right? And we've talked about this ad nauseum is the fact that people still love to start with Midjourney. But there becomes this line in the sand where you you have to take it outside of Midjourney to do the editing portion of it. Right. So, like, let's get into like what's actually working in good here and sort of establish that. And we can just kind of talk through where this lives right now. That said, maybe Midjourney, right?

Play from 1:12:50 8:88:88 1:12:50 Like, Is going to continue to incrementally improve on this. So this is not like we're gonna be too harsh on them. This literally just came out less than 24 hours. But I do want to get a sense of what is this good for right now? And then maybe what are the things that we're hoping to improve on over time, too. So um, first of all, right, I think like let's let's talk about where you go to get in here. Okay.

Play from 1:13:19 8:88:88 1:13:19 Okay. Yeah. And and I haven't the the way that I got into it, I don't think is the preferred way to get into it or or the core way to get into it. So I'm hoping like let's figure this out together. We're gonna give them kind of like a little UIUX experience here. If we were to go into this, or if we just land on Midjourney, where do we go to edit the image? Hello? Edit. Add a new image. A output existing or Yeah.

Play from 1:13:47 8:88:88 1:13:47 yep, we could go in here. um we could go into I don't know, I'll just throw some So organized. You're right? I don't know, write your edit. Just do that. You know. No, yes. Cause this is you know, this I I was wondering when they said edit model, if it was just an updating on the edit model itself, or it was like you could actually yeah.

Play from 1:14:19 8:88:88 1:14:19 It wasn't like, you know, Nano Banana is an edit model, but also they have an editor feature on Midjourney. So it's like are we talking about the same thing here? oh well there you go. do it. So I think this is one way in then. Um this is one way in. So this is where you could, again, going back to where you what you you could upload a URL, like a URL or the image itself.

Play from 1:14:45 8:88:88 1:14:45 How I got in here was I was just looking at old images I had. I clicked into one and then hit this quick edit and it tossed it here, and I just prompted right here. Huh. Okay. What did it what did it replace down there? the way that I would do it, just knowing that th that was my reaction to it. Um, so like I went actually, it was this one. It was this image that I started with, right?

1:15:00What works and what drifts in Midjourney Edit

Play from 1:15:12 8:88:88 1:15:12 And then this is what I got. So I just had it change her shirt to a nun's habit. All four of them gave me, you know, the habit, right? So I was like, okay, solid, solid. Like easy change, did it. Um, and then I took this and I just wanted to say, like, put a put a bruise under her eye. And this maybe this isn't the best image because I think this is like a V-sempet image, you know, like it's it's not the best skin ever. It did that.

Play from 1:15:42 8:88:88 1:15:42 But um, I did want to just like test it variably. So it it got that. Okay. Now there is like some slight differences that I noticed even between that, which is she got a little bit more saturated here. Right? Like a little bit more yellow. Yep. Uh huh. Okay. okay, increase microcontrast, skin texture, and realism on her skin.

Play from 1:16:08 8:88:88 1:16:08 This is just sort of my my first quick approach to like just see what it would understand. This got even more considerably warm. the robe? Yeah. Yep. Yep. Got a little green. There's and also I didn't based on this, is like this is not the right uh communication or phrase to improve that. Right. So then I kind of went even a little bit bigger and I said something along the lines of like, make your skin texture look real, visible port like I called out all the things that make skin texture real.

Play from 1:16:41 8:88:88 1:16:41 Right. And then I also kind of put in the negative guardrails. So then explicitly kill common failure mode. So no airbrush skin, no beauty retouching, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. This is what I got. Right. Um, a little bit better results. Still the the contrast though, like the, the, the, the color being added to it um was driving me a little bit nuts. I did get better results though when I kind of took a lot of this out.

Play from 1:17:10 8:88:88 1:17:10 I kept all the nose in. Uh-huh. skin here looks much better than I had earlier. Not this one, not this one, but this one also looked better than the others in comparison. Then I was like, okay, like let's make like she had some, she, you know, she kind of had like a a funky tooth here. So I was like, I don't know, let's just play with the teeth. Let's see what it gives me. Make her two top front teeth gold. One of these teeth should have a slight glare.

Play from 1:17:37 8:88:88 1:17:37 Gave her Bugs Bunny teeth, you know, like so I thought, like, you know, again, just one-shotting this. So Who knows if I were to run this? But my general rule is if I don't get what I like in, you know, that that strand of four images, then I need to change something. You know, if I get it in one, right, I know that there's something right about it. That's the way that I interpret it. I tried this with like a different image. So then I was like, okay, I used this image.

Play from 1:18:04 8:88:88 1:18:04 This was kind of probably a bad example, but was trying to like get this nose from the cat and the mouth sort of blending together. But you'll notice again, look at the look at the color of the skin change, right? yes. And so I just thought that was interesting. And then I kind of went into the the camera angle thing, right? Like maybe more things that you would expect to see.

Play from 1:18:30 8:88:88 1:18:30 So I wanted to see, you know, change to a three quarter angle, keep her identity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Thought this was okay. Subtle differences. Um, change to a side profile, right? I only got the gun on one. So it it discarded the gun on the other three. on each one each of them. Um earrings change. changed the aerial. Now I've got like two different backgrounds here. Right.

Play from 1:18:56 8:88:88 1:18:56 Um Glasses are pretty solid throughout. The eyes feel relatively the same, but you've got even different hues in this batch. Which again, like even, you know, let's be fair. Like even with Nano and chat, when you when you run those four times, you do get there are variations in those four things. But I'm Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then like change to a high angle. It's like, that's not really a high angle. Change to a low angle.

Play from 1:19:22 8:88:88 1:19:22 Okay. Low angle it it got. But again, no gun in this one. Okay. Um the I'm like testing this in the background while you guys are talking. And I don't know if I'm just so like, like I think I said this before we started recording. I love Midjourney so much that like they can literally do no wrong. And I think I'm so the opposite of spoiled. I'm so used to like the slot from them and going through the process that like the results I'm getting right now, the fact that I can like zoom out, I'm like, I'm like, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me.

Play from 1:19:54 8:88:88 1:19:54 We we need it we w we needed an edit model in here. I like I've been saying that this is this is gonna be a a pivotal moment for them, I think. To to get people back in here and spending more time. Yeah. Literally trying this like live. So I made this with you guys, Ethereal Woman. And then I said move her hair out of her face. Which I think the biggest thing, like if I brought this into Nano, sometimes it does it good.

1:20:06Midjourney Edit vs Nano Banana: identity lock

Play from 1:20:21 8:88:88 1:20:21 But the worst part about bringing it to Nano is it like it'll change the vibe in a way that's just like you can't recover it. Like, yes, it'll be the same woman. Yes, it'll like her hair is out of her face, but something really important will change. So like the fact that I can even get like Even if I still have to take this into Nano to do something with it, the fact that I can get the shapes essentially, the composition good, this is like huge win already. So then I took this image again and I said make a full body image of this woman.

Play from 1:20:50 8:88:88 1:20:50 It's keeping the face and the vibe. Like if I did this to Nano and I said make a full body image of this woman, it'll it would give me like it her face would change and it would give me like, you know, like not Midjourney. Yeah. So like yeah, another. Yeah. I feel like that that skin mood boards coming through with that like vivid, like crisp white background that has like the you know the rear glow coming through, which is sick.

Play from 1:21:20 8:88:88 1:21:20 It's that's a good that's a good idea. this one, this is just like a random vibe image I had. I said create a different angle of this. Alright. Like does it is it good enough to add text? Can it add text? I wonder if thing to play with is like the kind of text, like maybe playing with Sans versus Seraph and then going into maybe other, maybe more accessible, widely global type faces that to You know, like that would be interesting too.

1:21:32Can Midjourney edit text and fonts now?

Play from 1:21:58 8:88:88 1:21:58 So it also brings you back here. I wanna like I've never seen them do this. But if you click it, it'll bring you back to that original prompt, which is pretty nice in terms of workflow, because then you can actually s it's you know. Right, let's see. Um I have one that has text that I can remove maybe. Yeah, 'cause I'm it's been better at text lately. Like I'll I'll just try certain things with not, you know, I'm not asking for paragraphs, I'm asking for small things.

Play from 1:22:24 8:88:88 1:22:24 But it's been relatively good at stylizing typography too, with that, you know, especially with mood boards that I throw in there. Um, you know, on this nineties stuff I was doing with this really like it looked in like hand drawn fonts and it does a pretty good job translating it. It'll be wrong, you know, every two out of four, but that that nailed it. We got removed text. uh Wow. That's it's pretty freaking great. Oh my god.

Play from 1:22:50 8:88:88 1:22:50 my god. Okay, wait. Um Let's say Change the font to be cursive. Yeah, there there's I mean there's so many different little tests within here to run. Okay, but look look at the look let's look at the difference of those cursive fonts. Like there's there's some no no no no no no no you're not no what I'm saying is there's a variation to the cursives, which is good because what I'm saying is with Nano specifically, you're getting a lot of the same typeface.

Play from 1:23:28 8:88:88 1:23:28 These are considerably different. So I'm wondering if it could add texture to that font now too. It's like, can we add can we texture it? Can we add, you know, sort of like depth to it? Can it turn into three D? Can it turn into can we add color to it? How do we can we ingrain it in the photo and like layer it? Like now there's so much to ask now, you know, if it can do stuff like that. Cause it does it does tend when Midjourney gets font and when it gets typography correct and it blends it into the photo, like it works really well.

Play from 1:23:59 8:88:88 1:23:59 Like even better than I, you know. A lot better than I can do with design. Like that's interesting. Um, like see what like the N is blended well into that image as like a design choice. It's not just like overlaid on top. Um, but there's so much, yeah, like especially for assets like this where you're only really using one or two words, like you don't need a lot. don't need a con you know, tab switch.

Play from 1:24:24 8:88:88 1:24:24 Yeah. Bang. So I said change the word Ibiza to Paris. And then it okay, so I already had Paris in here, so I guess that's fine. Wow. Okay, now now I wanna try this with like a Wanna try something? There we go. Once you get going in here on the design stuff, it's so you can attach you can just do edit right in here.

Play from 1:24:51 8:88:88 1:24:51 And I wonder too, like when when you continue to edit that same image, right, like Nano really degrades it over time. You know, you start doing edits to that same image three or four deep, you're lose you're losing stuff. Did that keep the typography style? Uh I mean yeah. Say maybe say let's use the exact same typeface.

Play from 1:25:18 8:88:88 1:25:18 Let's see let's see how. How true it says something like that. This is interesting. I'm pretty excited about this. This is when I'm like, we can drop logos in here and then like things like that and like really start to if you can if you can add logos into the mix or if I can just like stack it in as a layer and then be like blended in in a certain way. Um matters to with in regard to the edits, you know?

1:25:23Can Midjourney's edit model preserve logos and apparel graphics?

Play from 1:25:44 8:88:88 1:25:44 it I just tried a couple of quick ones of like adding srefs, moving srefs. Wow, okay, so the logo is the logo is asymmetric and it kept it asymmetric. That's hey, it's listening. And then until you start to wonder how far it can go. You know, then it's like what uh how coded is this thing? Um let's see, change just for anyone listening, we're change the sweatshirt design now.

Play from 1:26:12 8:88:88 1:26:12 So I said make it a pixel butterfly. So this is a pretty this is not a very optimized prompt. So I'm seeing how it does. That's so cool though, because it's like embroidered and it's you get Midjourney. Yeah, you've got you've got some some really good use cases here. Hey, try try that same image because you've got three different pixel elements there.

Play from 1:26:38 8:88:88 1:26:38 See if you can call out like the top one to change to a butterfly. I'm curious, like, you know, if we get really specific where this sort of if it breaks or not. top design on the sweatshirt to be a pixel butterfly in the same style as the others. And again, this is like it's also finicky with these with these edit models too, like the exact language you use. You know, there's there's some disparity like with the coherence depending on which words you use. So there's like lots of blurry lines here.

Play from 1:27:05 8:88:88 1:27:05 Just because we use like something may not work here doesn't mean it doesn't work either. We might have to to rephrase it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Hmm. my god, you guys. that that last one, that last one looks like it is embedded in the same way as the others. This is uh here goes an here goes an afternoon. Or you know what, it might be might be good to just do this at at night while I'm sitting up and you know half asleep.

Play from 1:27:36 8:88:88 1:27:36 Yeah. on mobile. Okay, if this can do the social template, this is crazy. There, look at that. Bang. I I like this. This is this is gonna be fun. the E the same. That's that's impressive 'cause that's not that's not a uh is that a custom font you guys built or is that something Okay. it is like particularly the this is the font.

Play from 1:28:03 8:88:88 1:28:03 It's not just like mono font. Alright, this is running it in H D. It's even keeping like the layout. I don't really like how like far up it is, but it's keeping that. Okay, an H D it's worse. Why? Huh. Weird. That's interesting. Maybe more pixels. crap. But like what is I mean What did the pixelation look like on the on the design too? Did it change it when it when it HD'd it? Like the like the blockiness of it?

Play from 1:28:31 8:88:88 1:28:31 Did it get smaller? Cause those those are things that would piss me off. You know, like that kind of stuff. Um I mean, it looks looks really similar. Yeah, we're gonna have to tell Mateo to watch this part. Cause I I wonder like what they what they internally like, yeah, they what they internally test here because like these these are there's so many Guse that we just ran through. you know, there was one interesting one too. I so there was one other one I ran on that nun where you know how it was getting very saturated.

Play from 1:29:01 8:88:88 1:29:01 I said decrease saturation and color warmth by 50%. It did a pretty good job. And then I did ran it at 100% and it did a pretty good job, like it, it brought it back completely. Make the character on the horse a woman. So this is also kind of like a pretty sloppy image. So let's see if it even wow. at that, dude. That's a cool animation right there. Just those four. Like I don't know why that's a that feels like a cool animation for a GIF.

Play from 1:29:28 8:88:88 1:29:28 Like if you're just changing the rider there. Or something like an icon for I go. I wonder if you could hold on. Could you could you take that and then just be like, you know, one second later and then see if you could if you could create like a stop motion style animation with that? Like that's 'cause if like is it gonna say like the horse, you know, is it gonna do the horse like in a different leg position? Yeah. It'd be like a flip book. Okay, I said create this scene one second later, don't change anything else.

Play from 1:29:58 8:88:88 1:29:58 Let's say. impressed so far. Huh. Is it if we go bat It's maybe not a second. This might this a little longer. We might need to give a little more help. But it looks like it looks like some stuff moved, you know. Yeah, it's like it's interesting to test what what variables will work.

Play from 1:30:23 8:88:88 1:30:23 Like so with that saturation things, it was like using a percentage. I also tried that same thing with like two X, five X. It didn't respond as well. Right. So it's like interesting from a percentage standpoint, maybe it has more coherence. Make her outfit more crazy. That looks like looks like something there. There's d some different leg positions, but not that much.

Play from 1:30:51 8:88:88 1:30:51 But we're we're pushing the edges here. We wanna see where this where this holds up. Alright, so this is make her outfit more crazy. Yeah. And it didn't ch let's let's see, it didn't change her face, right? Everything else looks very static. The one's got a little bit more saturation on her face, but it's pretty good. Wonder if it's like selectively in painting instead of actually regenerating the whole image. Like I wonder if that's what's happening instead of because some of the stuff is really tight.

1:31:05Is Midjourney inpainting or regenerating?

Play from 1:31:20 8:88:88 1:31:20 Like, you know, when you when you do it across Nano or GPT, like if you looked at them, like if you just flip through them back and forth, you could see things have moved, um, you know, or slightly changed. That's an awesome this is an awesome image, by the way. It's sick. I've fixed it up in Nano, but now I can make this an album cover, change the text to say vices. I'm just seeing like what it'll do. Cause this is what I ended up doing with this image myself. Um I like made it like a mock up, yeah.

Play from 1:31:49 8:88:88 1:31:49 So I changed the text to say vices and then I made like 'cause I don't know, it's just All four too. Okay, so Do you think it's again, leveraging those in any way with the edit? D do you think like, for example, you've got mood boards selected here? When I tried a quick test here with this car, I tried with the S Refs, I tried with uh different mood boards, it didn't change anything.

Play from 1:32:15 8:88:88 1:32:15 Okay. Huh. Yeah, so that's kind of like a UI 'cause I would assume could you imagine if you could like I wanna try doing like a style reference. Yeah, what if you had like a what if you had like a CD cover, like an album cover reference or something like that? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like Look at that. Let's get that in there.

Play from 1:32:41 8:88:88 1:32:41 This is right up this is right up the alley. We haven't we haven't done this in a while. Thanks for bringing us back, Jamey. Yeah. apply the C D texture to the first image. Guys. And do you put that as a style reference? I so I put it as a edit reference. This is so know, right?

Play from 1:33:10 8:88:88 1:33:10 Okay, so it's try you f it's fair, it's it's like trying to blend it. Yeah. Okay, like imagine I take like five minutes to prompt this, like But but also like I wonder if there's like an element of this where you you know with with Nano or like if you're using Freepik, you can you can assign it like image one, apply image two to image one. Like I wonder if there's like a component of this that exists in there.

Play from 1:33:35 8:88:88 1:33:35 Just needed the right language. my god. So if you prompt it like this is like almost maybe if you change like the ratio Ratio, yeah, to a one one 'cause that's typically what a yeah, it could be. talking technical design terms to it and it works really well. Like it it just the more and more you get into it with that kind of stuff, it just handles it better than it used to.

Play from 1:34:02 8:88:88 1:34:02 Okay, I'm just trying like a wildly large aspect ratio. Oh, see? Make the full scene of this image large turquoise table. It didn't go. What do we got here? Huh. So you even select the twenty one nine, you're saying it's it's it's pushing it. oh okay, I see what you're saying. is that because you had AR in the prompt though? Well, if you d is it gonna make you manually edit it now?

Play from 1:34:27 8:88:88 1:34:27 Like if you go into the actual like if you're gonna open editor and then go twenty one nine or two one? This is really impressive though, that it's like maintaining her like pose. I'm like definitely gonna yeah, I'm gonna be using Nano significantly less for sure. It's first, folks. Yeah. That was the question. It's like, is this gonna be good enough? Like is is it going to be good enough to keep people in?

1:34:33The verdict: using Nano Banana less

Play from 1:34:55 8:88:88 1:34:55 You know, uh there are just so many people that start with Midjourney. And I think we've we've kind of answered a lot. Like there are plenty of use cases right now where you don't need to go back in and answer. No, I mean, look, we've always said this. Nano was the option and gem and ChatGPT was the option because it could do what we needed it to do. But until it's until there's something better, then it's you know, until Midjourney rolls this out and it can do editing. Like I'm right back in.

Play from 1:35:21 8:88:88 1:35:21 I've been I've been doing it way more with stuff. I'm using it as, you know, either I have to go and build references for GPT and Nano to get it somewhere. Right. Like it's it doesn't it can't do it just by text anymore. Like you really need to push it visually, um, you know, with references. But this is this is a welcomed sort of welcomed addition here. I feel like there's so much fun to be had with this and actually a lot of practical use cases too.

Play from 1:35:47 8:88:88 1:35:47 Um the on that, on that um twenty one nine or that two one that you got, remind me, did did you end up getting that to do that in the prompt or did you have to go in that full editor and I have to go into full editor and then yeah, so you can't looks like you can't change aspect ratio in quick edit. Okay, this is part's it it's still possible. It's just you gotta do it in a different way, right? Right right now we're just using text changes. So this is um create an image of a cat in the same style as this image.

Play from 1:36:15 8:88:88 1:36:15 Uh let's say it would be like. maintain natural cat physiognomy features. N no human anatomy. I'd say like just the visual style and vibe. Like this is how I prompt like Nano sometimes, so Like you're talking to an L L It's it's it it needs it sometimes.

Play from 1:36:50 8:88:88 1:36:50 There's only so much it can do with the with the real hmm What if you say swap the person for a cat? It's like the opposite. Got like a human nose with that cat, very creepy. Okay. I can't even remember the hell what it was called. 'Cause there was what was the other feature that they used to have in the editor?

Play from 1:37:15 8:88:88 1:37:15 I mean it was basically control net. really lose it. Retexture, that's it. Yeah. There's haven't used it in a while. But this kind of feels like it blends right into it. So this is this is sort of the the same thing. But of my most of my editing is just like, you know, change the fit of this or like zoom in, zoom out, different angle.

1:37:34Where Nano Banana still fits

Play from 1:37:42 8:88:88 1:37:42 Like a lot of it is not like Sometimes it's fixing slop. But like I feel like Midjourney could now maybe do a good chunk of this and then you only go into Nano for like those like super specific things. Yeah, and maybe to your point, like you were showing node based system too, right? Like Midjourney's just not gonna be there. So you you really don't have an option there if you're trying to build it in that way.

Play from 1:38:07 8:88:88 1:38:07 I f like Nano and GPT's framing kills me. I hate it. I'm like it never frames and crops the right way. Like it's always everything is always dead center. Like dead center axis placement. Like it's never yeah. Like it's never like, it's gonna chop the forehead off. Like unless you specifically say it. Right? Like and that's no. Never gonna like personality. Never gonna place someone off rule of thirds unless you ask it to, like that kind of stuff.

Play from 1:38:35 8:88:88 1:38:35 But was that is that a texture? Yeah, I just said apply film grain to this image. This is the original, and this is like There you go. There you go. So don't need a uh don't need a mood board for film grain. Well, this should I think that was a that was a nice little surprise here right at the end to to go deep into it.

Play from 1:39:03 8:88:88 1:39:03 There was some good stuff. Jamey, it's also I love I love watching how when other people get inflow in Midjourney, it's not myself, to see the directions they go. Because it's you know, each one of those decisions could branch into like fifty other multiverses, right? Like I was like, let's see if the thing can be animated, and you're like, let's go see if we can change it to a woman. Right, like it's a there's like a whole I just I love that that cascading effect of where shit can go.

Play from 1:39:28 8:88:88 1:39:28 And that's why we love it so much, probably. Um but that was a fun episode. I know I could keep going. I need to eat though. It's just so fun. This is we gotta we gotta do it again. We should do that again sometime. We should probably bring some bring this all back at some point, bring some other you know, we might have to get a group on here at some point, Drew. Yeah. protect our parks, but for like Midjourney.

Play from 1:39:57 8:88:88 1:39:57 That we could definitely have our own version of that. And it would you know, put black light in here too. Get a little bit you know. Yeah. We used to do that. Have our drinks. Now it's a little bit harder. Who we shout out? man? Should we shout out Midjourney employees? Come on. Like Maybe shout out some Midjourney employees. Again, if you've been here for this whole time, you know what's coming.

Play from 1:40:26 8:88:88 1:40:26 You just gotta do one thing. It's it. Doesn't have to be a lot. Like tell someone, comment, whatever. You know, maybe uh maybe your local um, you know, Australian branding company that's on Fiverr. Maybe that's a good one. Yeah, or anyone, just d any any profession that we need to tell to come listen. Uh yeah. I think that More designers should come listen to you guys because I think a lot of people when they come to me or like they're in my course, they're like, I love just watching you work and Like you guys just like show like what the heck you're doing in Midjourney or what you're doing in Claude.

Play from 1:41:05 8:88:88 1:41:05 Um, and that gives you like the context to like just get started. Cause I think it's it's really hard to teach, especially because everything's so nebulous and everyone does like their own specific thing. So like sometimes the best way is just like watching people do it. True. you guys are the only podcast that does that. I think other podcasts are good when they do like demos or talk about theory. I think that's important as well. But like hopefully this this hour is gonna be like two hours long and this might actually, you know, show people like how we actually iterate.

Play from 1:41:33 8:88:88 1:41:33 Um, which I think is really important. So I would say designers that don't know how to use AI should listen to you guys. We'll take that one to the bank. Yeah. take that one. Clean it up. this was a this was great. Jamey, thanks for joining us. Thanks for walking us through like your thought process, some of the workflows, the mood board stuff. Like I think that was super helpful and unique for for the podcast. And then also, yeah, I'm excited for everybody to listen to this.

Play from 1:42:02 8:88:88 1:42:02 And we'll get we'll catch you guys next week in the next one. See ya. Thanks guys. Bye. That was awesome.