Ep. 77: How to Build an AI Universe That Compounds

0:00:00Who is Blvckl!ght?

Play from 0:00:01 8:88:88 0:00:01 What's up everybody? Fast Hours Podcast episode 77. Rory Flynn, Drew Brucker, and we've got a special guest today. Blacklight,

Play from 0:00:10 8:88:88 0:00:10 ironically enough, I'm the one sort of with the black light look and not him. So, I don't know what's going on there. You got some you got some questions to answer with that. But, uh, dude, we're excited to have you here, man. So, Blacklight is somebody that we've talked about on this podcast before. we mentioned uh on several occasions, but he's also the founding member of West Coast AI Labs. And so, let's introduce him to the show. Blacklight, welcome, man. And um tell the audience a little bit about yourself.

Play from 0:00:36 8:88:88 0:00:36 Thanks, Drew. Yeah. Uh my name is Blacklight. I'm out of Portland, Oregon. One of the founding members of West Coast AI Labs. We just recently got a physical studio here. Uh I've been in AI for over three years. Been in digital marketing for 15 years. uh helped multiple companies scale and and go to market and working on a third company for a decade now preai and uh picked up AI few years ago and haven't looked back since.

Play from 0:01:03 8:88:88 0:01:03 Look at us digital marketers. Look at us marketers banding together here. This is amazing. Got to recognize those trends early and get on them. That's

Play from 0:01:10 8:88:88 0:01:10 that's right. [laughter] That's that's the common mindset. Black, I have a I have a question for you. When you go to when you go to hotels, do you use an alias or do you use your real name? I usually [laughter] use an alias.

Play from 0:01:23 8:88:88 0:01:23 I didn't know if that was a uh I didn't know if this this extended beyond the uh the online presence into the real world. It does though.

Play from 0:01:29 8:88:88 0:01:29 That's for sure. Yeah. [laughter] It's a good one though. Like if you're going to go by an alias, it might as well be something something legit and not like you know like Will Samson or like you know John Taylor. I mean those are

Play from 0:01:41 8:88:88 0:01:41 I've worked for a few celebrities before and it's always like I was like if you can make up any name make it a little bit more interesting. No, it's got to be mundane because if it sticks out, then people are going to recognize it. So, it's got to be like a John Smith or something very generic that nobody thinks thinks twice about.

Play from 0:01:55 8:88:88 0:01:55 Any Is there a cool story behind the name like or is it just like a random poll for Black Light? You mean Well, the V and the exclamation point is just AI upside down.

Play from 0:02:06 8:88:88 0:02:06 And so, I always look at that. That's a good one. And the black light stuff just comes from like growing up and being, you know, in my room with blacklight posters and stuff. I've told the story before where, you know, my dad was like really big into like blacklight stuff in the in the 70s and uh he had a lot of that old stuff, his old uh lava lamps and Yeah. And he's like, I'm going to show you some stuff. So, I was introduced to like the Doors when I was five and the Grateful Dead and just like just good music. That sounds pretty awesome, man.

Play from 0:02:40 8:88:88 0:02:40 Yeah. Yeah. So, do you have like a like a vibrant orange shag carpet in your house? Like stuff like that? Wood panels? Yeah, I love that. I love that look, though. It's like you never see anything that's interesting anymore. Every house is

Play from 0:02:53 8:88:88 0:02:53 looks like my apartment. It's like white and black and gray. There's no, you know, there's no like life to it. I like the conversation pits. There's a lot of houses out here in Portland that have the conversation pit. I love it.

Play from 0:03:03 8:88:88 0:03:03 Still, is that like a Is that a thing in the mid mid-centuries? They got they still keep those pits going. Good little conversations.

Play from 0:03:11 8:88:88 0:03:11 Yeah. Yeah. We need those again. Bring those back. That was fun. Yeah. You don't see anything fun like that anymore. Or like the the mirrored walls from like the 70s in the 80s. I don't know.

Play from 0:03:22 8:88:88 0:03:22 Feel like everywhere I walked in, especially down like grandma's down in Florida, too. Like everyone had Oh, yeah. mirrored walls and like mirrored, you know, everything mirrors and shag carpets and fun stuff. But

Play from 0:03:33 8:88:88 0:03:33 yeah, [laughter] shows you shows you how far we've come. It's all data now. This goes back to five more five episodes ago. It'll come back now. It'll come back. Well, Black, so Blacklight, you've been you've been in the AI space for a while now. Uh, we were just talking about this before. I mean, you've been around for, you know, couple, you know, probably three or four years now since sort of really kind of became available. Um, but were you always bullish on AI? Um, were you ever anti-AII? And if so, like what was the I don't know, was there an inflection point for you or was this just like a gradual thing as you started seeing more use cases and playing with it more that it just kind of opened your mind up?

Play from 0:04:14 8:88:88 0:04:14 Yeah, I was I was very anti-AII initially. I mean, being in the digital marketing space, I mean, I came from lead generation where we had like paper leads and then moved into the call paper call space and like building out systems for that and I saw AI as like the thief, you know what I mean, as everybody likes to refer to it as. And then I got into it and started mixing like my own art and photography into it and which is stuff that I hadn't touched in like 20 years. I was focused on my career trying to survive. And then when I really saw the potential with what you can do with like existing music and existing art that you had and being able to iterate off of that and then understanding how like all of that actually works. I saw a different path with AI than what the like common knowledge was. And I think that's still pervasive. Like today we

0:04:15Why did Blvckl!ght change his mind on AI?

Play from 0:05:00 8:88:88 0:05:00 see two paths, right? That things that people focus on and go viral is like the IP ripping and the fan art and the the arguments about water consumption and energy consumption, which energy consumption is great, is holding up a, you know, a jar of dirty water and saying this is because of a data center. It's like, no, that's because of the construction crew that built the data center that messed everything up that you're now equating to the energy usage, which is, you know, it's a misnomer that then snowballs and becomes like common knowledge, which just isn't fundamentally true.

Play from 0:05:32 8:88:88 0:05:32 That's I'm I'm diving back in only from a personal interest standpoint on the lead genen and the paper call stuff. Were you were you in the affiliate space? Were you Yeah, that's [laughter]

Play from 0:05:41 8:88:88 0:05:41 Were you running like affiliate offers or were you working for or were you just agency work and you know, generating both? So, I mean, we started out with like affiliate networks, but I mean, they're so inconsistent. Then we went and moved in with direct buyers. I work in kind of the regulated industries and like health and insurance and home services and stuff, which is like very legal and by the book, right? So in coming into the AI space where there is no regulation, yeah, I carry a lot of those like ethical standards with me into AI and there's a real vacuum of that like legal knowledge base right now and any sort of meaningful reform that I think if you're going to be like serious in AI and make a career out of it that you have to think about the legal ramifications of the things that you're making. And I think some of the other stuff that we, you know, we'll talk about really come back to this point of like what is legally sound, what makes

Play from 0:06:28 8:88:88 0:06:28 an industry, what makes what makes this viable and not just like the thief of existing media. Yeah,

Play from 0:06:36 8:88:88 0:06:36 I think it's interesting on the affiliate space because, you know, running run in a lot of those circles, not as, you know, not as much on the the lead genen paper call side, but it's a I feel like it's a very targeted sort of audience, you know, speaking to that because it's

Play from 0:06:51 8:88:88 0:06:51 it's something where AI makes a lot of sense now because it is so much volume and it is so much testing and it is so much optimization that the tools felt like a natural sort of like why would I not be using this totally early on? But, you know, we can we can have a sidebar conversation on the affiliate stuff cuz that's that's interesting. And people aren't familiar with affiliate marketing. There's a there's a lot of uh and paper call and lead genen. Basically,

Play from 0:07:14 8:88:88 0:07:14 the overlap is surprising. Yeah. Yeah. And just think about it as, you know, if I'm trying to explain this in the most simple terms possible, like there's a business that has a service and like you as a third party can sell leads to them essentially. Like that's that's one way. Okay, there's a million ways, but just like if you're thinking about it, like how does a construction company get leads? Someone else might be getting leads for them and selling it to them. So,

Play from 0:07:37 8:88:88 0:07:37 it's a there's a lot of opportunity there. But I think it's interesting because that, you know, I feel like a lot of people in this space who come from that background like this just was natural. Slide right in and let's go. Totally.

Play from 0:07:49 8:88:88 0:07:49 Um, but it sounds like you had you had a little bit of uh apprehension about it in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah, I was apprehensive about it, but then I, you know, like I said, you see the opportunity that's there and then when you can start to actually like create with it and when you when your experience is different than the common perception of something, then you know that like, okay, I need to see I need to go deeper.

Play from 0:08:11 8:88:88 0:08:11 And it was kind of like once I took that step, I'm like, all right, now I'm falling down the rabbit hole and three years later, here we are and I'm deep in it.

Play from 0:08:19 8:88:88 0:08:19 I think that's interesting. I think like now more than ever, people are really holding on to perspectives longer and more tightly than than they should. Um, you brought up sort of like this point of this dirty water that you see, right? And if you're just catching that 10 seconds and then you've got to pivot and do something else, you're not thinking deeper about that, right?

Play from 0:08:41 8:88:88 0:08:41 And so it feels like in a lot of ways we're getting more and more delusional about the truth in some ways. And I think some of that's purposeful, but like we do have to challenge perspectives. I think it's awesome that you were sort of on that other side. And

Play from 0:08:55 8:88:88 0:08:55 you really were just open enough to kind of see that through and then really kind of come out the other side and and leverage.

Play from 0:09:02 8:88:88 0:09:02 You've shown my work, too. Like I have a lot of people that say like, "I hate AI, but I love your stuff." And I literally save those comments like little badges. And my largest audience is Gen Z and Gen Alpha who notoriously like hate AI. Like I don't like my Instagram is like on life support but my TikTok is booming and I have people that like get tattoos of my characters and they really ask and refer merch and stuff all the time. Yeah. Oh yeah.

0:09:06Why does Gen Z hate AI but love his work?

Play from 0:09:28 8:88:88 0:09:28 That's awesome. Pretty wild cuz did you you have to I have to say like from early on if I'm scrolling and I no like no vacuum if I didn't see username I could pick out your stuff right away. It's a very distinct style and it's awesome. Um which I think is kind of rare. Drew and I have talked about this a lot is like our creative add in terms of we can't create we can't just stick with one thing and one style and like you know sort of commit to it but like when I look at your stuff I'm like it he's committed [laughter]

Play from 0:09:59 8:88:88 0:09:59 it's like a brand now I mean it is a brand right yeah totally it it's visually [clears throat]

Play from 0:10:06 8:88:88 0:10:06 different styles but it's it's usually consistent in kind of nature and theme um as much as possible I mean even stuff like this which is still a kind of a mix of realism. Like you can very clearly see that it's something that I've made.

Play from 0:10:19 8:88:88 0:10:19 Yes. It's it's a very distinct signature. Like if you're like if you watermarked it, it would just be it'd be so easy to

Play from 0:10:27 8:88:88 0:10:27 It feels blacklightish, right? Like I mean, you know, it definitely feels like the name, you know, these colors, you know, the vibrance in there. Also, just always got to call this out, but there's the two sides of AI, right? Like as we've gone through the technology progressions, it's like you're either trying to force it so hard for it to be totally perfect so it's indistinguishable from from realism or you're embracing sort of the flaws or it's stylistic. And if you go the stylistic route, right, you have more liberties

Play from 0:10:56 8:88:88 0:10:56 with the way that physics and these things kind of come into play and it makes it more fun, right? And I would think as a creator if you're going down that path feels much more enjoyable um by the creative surprises and elements and and sort of like

Play from 0:11:10 8:88:88 0:11:10 levers that you can pull that direction versus going on the realism side. Mhm. And I think it's important too to note like I'm not I don't go viral like all the time, but if you ask most creators in the space like they know who I am, you know what I mean? And and the numbers run like I still get views on old videos and as a digital marketer you know about like your digital footprint, right? And so if you're consistently creating, that footprint just expands and the numbers just keep running. And so someone who might get, you know, constant viral posts eventually maybe burn out of that. It happened for me. I went viral multiple times and but now the numbers just keep running. They'll just randomly run on old stuff and it just keeps every day I see stuff that I made two years ago getting likes. So why is it showing up in the algorithm? But

Play from 0:11:55 8:88:88 0:11:55 that's just how it works. You know, when you know when you know how like the algorithms work and how they play to stuff, you will just continue to feed that machine.

Play from 0:12:04 8:88:88 0:12:04 What was your favorite type of like what was your what was your thing growing up media wise? Like is there certain shows or video games? Cuz I feel like there's a very distinct influence here from somewhere along the line.

Play from 0:12:14 8:88:88 0:12:14 I mean, I loved like old Liquid television. I know some people might not know what that is. And like the old MTV days before it was like, you know what it is now. Old music videos. Adult Swim when I was in college. I mean, I remember even old old Adult Swim with Seab and uh Space Ghost Coast to Coast and then, you know, the later years when it moves into Aquatine and then Tim and Eric and, you know, the evolution of just late night television because I was always a late night person. I worked at clubs, I worked at restaurants. I didn't get home until, you know, 1:00 in the morning, 2:00 in the morning, 5 in the morning and uh nothing's on at that point. And then a lot of like the late night fever dream infomercials and the hodge podge of media. Like when you're when you're going through that when you're younger, it just kind of all mixes together in your brain and it's

0:12:15What shaped Blvckl!ght's visual style?

Play from 0:13:01 8:88:88 0:13:01 turned into this like Damian Lovejoy right here. Most pain in the ass character to work with. People love him. Like don't know why. Even this video, it's sloppy. It's old, but it still runs. And I don't understand why, but it is what it is.

Play from 0:13:17 8:88:88 0:13:17 3.5 mil. Crazy. I love the late night infomercial drop there. Those are like dream state. You wake up. I remember just leave my TV on every once in a while, wake up, be like, "Am I in a nightmare?" Like, "This is the worst stuff ever."

Play from 0:13:29 8:88:88 0:13:29 When it was also like the Enya and the like pure music. It was being force-fed like different music, too. So, you wake up in the middle of night, you're like, "What? What am I seeping into my consciousness as I'm falling asleep in the TV,

Play from 0:13:40 8:88:88 0:13:40 right? [laughter] Just coming." Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's And it got like a little It feels like a little celebrity death match like texture as well on some of the stuff like that. I could see some of that come through. I love the I always love like the big eyes sort of like the nose. There's like a very I don't know how to codify it, but it feels like you're you're creating from a from like a not a it's not a template arc type. Maybe that's the word I'm looking for.

Play from 0:14:06 8:88:88 0:14:06 Um toys too, right? Like we were product I was product of like the 80s and 90s and all the old toys had those big dead eyes on them and they would just sit somewhere in your room like even like the tickle me Elmo and stuff which is after after me. But I remember all of our old toys like creepy like my buddy and kid sister and cabbage patch kids and garbage pail kids and just all the weird stuff. The weird toys that they would give us that had like toxic chemicals in them that were like [laughter] like don't eat this.

Play from 0:14:36 8:88:88 0:14:36 We're still here somehow. Gushers, you know, like whatever's in that neon gelatin. Yeah, [laughter] exactly. Cuz it's also like if you think about like some of those 90 shows like I I watched uh a clip from Ren and Stimpy the other day and I'm like what were we watching when we were five?

Play from 0:14:53 8:88:88 0:14:53 Oh yeah. [laughter] That show is like notoriously terrible for kids like and it's like our parents didn't even know that show like we were just watching.

Play from 0:15:02 8:88:88 0:15:02 My dad loved Ren Stimpy. He would watch it with us and just was cracking up. So I remember I'm like okay but then for some reason we couldn't watch the Simpsons when we were younger. So it was like a little bit of this weird tradeoff. Nickelodeon the 90s is definitely uh we go we go back to that one. Yeah, definitely a little unhinged. There's no way anything like that exists. I mean, are you afraid of the dark? Like there's no way they show for kids.

Play from 0:15:23 8:88:88 0:15:23 Yeah. I feel like I feel like I'm watching new nostalgia if that makes sense when I'm looking at your stuff. Like I feel like I'm watching something new but it's rooted in

Play from 0:15:32 8:88:88 0:15:32 like some visual like time stamp which I love. And I've I've probably everyone on here is probably annoyed of me saying this after a couple episodes, but I'm like I've been looking for something that's a little bit more like

Play from 0:15:45 8:88:88 0:15:45 Yeah. It's like we take something that's relevant previously attach like some human, you know, sort of understanding to it and then like we develop a new medium for it, which is what your stuff always brings like that that out in me. So number one, well done on that one. I love I love that stuff, dude. Really I stop and watch every time. te tell us about this because I think like these are some of the clips. Tell us about route 47. So this is something that you know pops up pretty frequently in your stuff. Um let's assume people don't know what that is. Tell us about this and and kind of like the the vision for it.

0:16:19What is Route 47?

Play from 0:16:19 8:88:88 0:16:19 Yeah, so Route 47 is uh overarching kind of umbrella of this like Americana highway lost in time and dimensions. Uh, it's got 28 different interconnected shows and characters and I'm on my fourth season of it. So, this character right here, Reggie, the fourth season is essentially based around Reggie falling into Route 47 and now experiencing all of these different locations that I've built over the past 2 years. Um, so whether it's Crypted Dating Game or Sazzy's taxiderermy and ice cream or Ken and Kendra's Coffins and Cupcakes, it's all you can see here. Gorbbo Swimhole, Mysterious Forest, just kind of mixing it all together. I did last season Route 47 uh public access TV. And you can see

Play from 0:17:06 8:88:88 0:17:06 this video, it says Reggie spins the wheel. This video was done way before and then I pulled back to it and then made a new episode around this specific Reggie character. Um, and so yeah, so now it's they have their own individual shows, but they're a part of this like larger world. And as the models have gotten better, I can go from, you know, talking heads two years ago to interactive experiences, fly on the wall kind of entertainment. And so I've just been feeding that machine and just pouring things into the bucket of this universe that's just kind of ever expanding. That's insane, man. So you've been riding this universe thing out for a while and then like I think it's really cool to see all this stuff that you've you've created is not just like static. It's it's compounding because

Play from 0:17:51 8:88:88 0:17:51 now you've like created something. Now you've interconnected it and you've got this sort of like leverage there to expand the story. And I mean this is this is definitely world building here. And I'm I love I love this Reggie guy cuz I feel like I've seen this guy, you know, probably this morning on the street somewhere. I don't know.

Play from 0:18:08 8:88:88 0:18:08 Yeah. Looks like he sold me a car in the uh you know in the early 2000s in Florida. [laughter] Like that guy. Yeah. That's But it's it's really cool, man, from a world building standpoint because I don't think a lot of people took it to the level that you did where it's like, "Yeah, I world build, but I world build for one project, not an entire universe."

Play from 0:18:26 8:88:88 0:18:26 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I'm I'm curious cuz I don't have the focus to do something [clears throat] like this. I I wish I did.

Play from 0:18:33 8:88:88 0:18:33 How are you get like character development number one? Like how are you going about building out like a life cycle of a character and then interacting it with the other universes? Doesn't have to be like a crazy meticulous. I'm just curious cuz I I have no idea how

Play from 0:18:47 8:88:88 0:18:47 I I think of it in like a way of like a spiral or concentric ring. So, it started with, you know, uh Gorbo's swimhole and then from there I was like, well, what's another thing in here? And at the time, the technology wasn't great that you can't really do anything beyond a character talking directly to the camera. And so, that was primed for television show style content. So, then I was like, okay, let me do Crypted Dating Game. wanted to bring kind of, you know, old love connection where they're talking about the date that they went on and then a little bit of the dating game and mix those together. And I thought cryptids are a really cool way to kind of do this. I mean, I've done I think of crypted dating game alone, I have over 30 or 40 episodes of it.

0:19:04How do you build an AI universe?

Play from 0:19:28 8:88:88 0:19:28 Um, and so you're coming up with three cryptids every I ran out of cryptids, so I had to start making my own for this show. [laughter]

Play from 0:19:35 8:88:88 0:19:35 So I ran out of things very early on and I was like, I gotta make new stuff. And then from there it was like okay if there's a show that means there's a television station. If there's a television station there's a radio station. So then I did the night signal which is like an art bell AM coast to coast.

Play from 0:19:52 8:88:88 0:19:52 Awesome. And I just kind of expanded it from there. So like one show turned into two. And then I was like okay well if there's a TV station that means it exists somewhere. And Route 47 was mentioned in an early Gorbbo's video. So I was like all right well let's just take this. It's like, you know, I've driven from Florida to the West Coast. I lived in Seattle for 15 years. But when you when people say like um what was his name? Anthony Bourdain said one of the things you need to do in life is travel. That's a thing that you have to do because you don't realize what the world is outside of your bubble until you travel. And when you drive, you know, from East Coast to West Coast alone, a lot of the things you're taught you realize are just fundamentally wrong. like the country in this country we have so much

Play from 0:20:37 8:88:88 0:20:37 empty space and there's very few population centers and it really kind of like breaks your brain out of that and I was like okay well Route 47's kind of like one of these roads I would have passed in the middle of the country that most people would never realize is there and then I just kind of expanded it from there like okay well you need a nightclub you need different store shops there's shows there there's media that exists inside this world so that's where like I do Mr. Gurglesson's midnight hour, which is like a late night kids show that only airs at midnight and time stops for an hour. So just like you're now like another layer in where you're not creating media for yourself, but like media for these characters in this world

Play from 0:21:17 8:88:88 0:21:17 and kind of expand it from there. Okay, goosebumps over here. [laughter] I I wanted epic explanation. Sorry. Go ahead. I want to I want to double down on Rory's question though because we we both bounce around and I I think like we both had these moment and partly is I think probably the product of what we do do day in and day out. we're we're not doing as much creative production as we used to, but and so I would say that's probably a piece of it. But also like

Play from 0:21:45 8:88:88 0:21:45 when you are in this echo chamber of AI and you see all these creators doing these other things and you're like, "Oh, I want to try that. I want to do this or I think I could do something with that." Right?

Play from 0:21:54 8:88:88 0:21:54 How do you stay in sort of that space and not, you know, get pulled in these other directions?

Play from 0:22:03 8:88:88 0:22:03 Um and and like, you know, use your discernment in that way. like how do you sort of stay on track with this because again this is not just this thing that you've been doing for a while. I mean this is like branching out.

Play from 0:22:14 8:88:88 0:22:14 This is thousands of hours of creation. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean I think it also starts with the creative process like you we've talked you know about Midjourney before and like I don't use Midjourney. I find it to be kind of like when you go to well if back in the day you used to go to a bookstore you look flip through the different magazines there's different art styles different things. That's kind of like what Midjourney is, right? It's it's a good way to get in there and see that there's different styles, but then when you move to other tools and I I for me it was Korea first where I could create my own style and then refine that and do that. I'm no longer in this like random style lottery. It's a very purposeful like intentional development

0:22:31How do you stay creatively consistent?

Play from 0:22:59 8:88:88 0:22:59 that gets refined over time. So like as new models come out, you're taking images from that you created from the old models and then training a a new image model. And that is the first step for me that kind of like pushes away everything else. I have multiple different styles that I explore in the black light stuff. I have this like Gorbos style with the eyes and everything, but I really try to like zero in on what is the thing that I want to make and then just double and triple down on that because social media is like a leaky bucket. you know, you you can pour water in, but there's it's leaking out every day. There's a short shelf life to it. Um, and so you have to constantly be producing and iterating and releasing, and that in and of itself is just a practice of like creation and being being able to push something out

Play from 0:23:45 8:88:88 0:23:45 and say, "Okay, it's not mine anymore. I've released it to the world for better or worse, whatever people think." You know, early on I've had people say, "Oh, this is slop." And now I have people like, "This is definitely not slop. It's very intentional creation." Um, and some of these apps like Crypted Dating King takes like eight hours to make um, even today and I've been doing it for so long. So, it's uh, a lot of like curation, intentional choice, um, and then just kind of putting the blinders on to what other people are doing.

Play from 0:24:16 8:88:88 0:24:16 I'm known to zag when everyone else is zigging, which is always which is always great. I mean, it's always a great strategy. I'm curious like um really quickly and it's not always about the tools, but I am curious like what what are the tools that you're primarily using um day-to-day at this point?

Play from 0:24:32 8:88:88 0:24:32 Yeah, I kind of bounce back and forth. Um I use Crea or Craya and Magnification because I have um models trained on both of those platforms. So that's a natural retention method, which kudos to them for for having that. For video generation, I kind of bounce around between platforms. Um, I use Artcraft, I use Venice, I use the foundational models themselves directly, but like again, I came from an anti-AII stance, right? So I and I work in digital marketing. I know about data collection, I'm essentially a data broker by day. So I know that if I'm creating everything in one place, they have my workflow. And I we see this thing right now where there's a lot of people that are in the

0:24:35Which AI tools does Blvckl!ght use?

Play from 0:25:17 8:88:88 0:25:17 AI space and being like workflows should be free and they should be shared and everybody should be have it. I disagree completely. Usually the people that want free workflows are ones that haven't developed it themselves. Um and I don't think that that is something that should be shared freely because it's come with, you know, like I said, thousands of hours, thousands of dollars of development and learning the quirks and intricacies of these models and stuff. And so I don't want an all-in-one. I want to create pieces here and here and here and pull it in and do it my own way so that one company doesn't have all of my pieces. Like I see the agentic stuff right now is popping off for a lot of people. They love it. But if you're running an entire piece in an agent, that company now knows exactly how you build everything and there's value in

Play from 0:26:03 8:88:88 0:26:03 that. And uh as someone who who works in tech, I know that diversification is key.

Play from 0:26:09 8:88:88 0:26:09 Like that, Rory. We hadn't heard that perspective before. I don't think that perspective cuz I got to be honest, I'm not I'm not a fan of the agent stuff yet. Unless it

Play from 0:26:17 8:88:88 0:26:17 it feels it feels like it's too much of a shortcut and it skips over all like the intentional decisions and like tries to go [clears throat]

Play from 0:26:24 8:88:88 0:26:24 it's a way for non-creative people to be creative. Yeah. Yes. If you're a leftrain person and you're a very literal person and you can sit and talk to an agent all day, but what would take me eight hours to do by hand would take me two hours to do with an agent

Play from 0:26:38 8:88:88 0:26:38 or sorry, two two days to do with an agent. Yeah. Like it takes me more time to be to be as concise with an agent than if I was just doing it myself. Cuz again, a lot of my early work was done like early Disney animation where it was like a background, the character animation, and then a foreground. And those were three separate videos that I would layer on top of each other. So like the old crypted dating game episodes, a lot of that stuff was built essentially like very early animation with layered videos playing on top of each other.

0:26:42Can AI agents make creatives slower?

Play from 0:27:06 8:88:88 0:27:06 It's cool. I didn't know that you were I didn't know it went that deep, but I like that. And that's cuz it's and that's cuz the models didn't do it. So like the whole stick of like uh Damian Lovejoy dancing in the background, I think you showed it earlier. That came because I needed something else on screen for social media to keep people's attention during these like long dialogue sections. And I was like, I'll just have Damian dancing in the background. And then that became a thing. And then that became a plotline. And then that, you know, people glob on to it. And I I talked about this uh last on Wednesday with the stream with Dr. Dreams. Like there comes a point he's experiencing this now where like you make something and then people take ownership of it and it's no longer your personal project. It's now like

Play from 0:27:52 8:88:88 0:27:52 people even now say, "Oh, my show is on. I don't own it anymore. I'm the creator of it." But when people have that sort of ownership over something, that's when you know that you've gotten the adoption and you really just have to do what the audience and the fans want and if that's what they want in their content that they like of yours, then just give it to them. That's that's a really awesome point. I was going to I was going to do king of transitions drew over to this cuz I wanted to ask the distribution question, but I feel like because of the distribution of where you're placing this stuff, it has had an ability to to build like a community and also to evolve around what they like, which is not how media has worked traditionally, right? It's like it's not that much engagement or that much sort of injection of the the

Play from 0:28:37 8:88:88 0:28:37 customer, you know, air quotes into the actual creation. But the like what you've just said like the bits become bits. It's like an inside joke that keeps growing. Yeah.

Play from 0:28:47 8:88:88 0:28:47 And like that keeps people there longer because it's like it feels like they're seen, right? They're seen and then they're being sort of like something is being developed specifically for them.

Play from 0:28:56 8:88:88 0:28:56 And not to give like if you believe in a project and you see that there's traction there, but it's not like it's not a gossip goblin, right? It's not Caven. It's not pulling millions of views every time. But Rocky Horror Picture Show was a complete flop when it came out. And now, you know, 40 years later, it's a cult classic. And so if you believe in a project and you have a cult following, those, you know, 20, 30, 50, 100,000 people are almost more valuable than a million or 2 million one-offs that might be interested but are not like in it and in the lore. And not saying that those guys don't have that. They definitely do have their, you know, cult following people, but you don't need millions and millions of people to be successful. You need a core audience and people that you know come

0:29:14Why can a cult audience beat virality?

Play from 0:29:41 8:88:88 0:29:41 back for your stories and you just build on that. You know it success comes in many different ways and not everyone has to be like the guy. there's enough pie for everybody to go around in regards to distribution like let's talk about that right like

Play from 0:29:56 8:88:88 0:29:56 so um fairground for example just came out escape alchemy there's there a lot of these are moving into streaming platforms fast TV so for people that don't know fast TV is essentially television if you don't have cable but you have internet you can plug it into your your smart TV you now have ad supported television for a one AI channel that's pure AI 247 That's over 8,000 minutes of content in a year of original content. There is enough pie for everybody to have a slice and be able to monetize their content, get a a direct feedback loop. And now you multiply that by multiple streaming platforms, right? Like we see Netflix and Paramount Plus and Amazon and Apple

0:30:15How can AI creators monetize on FAST TV?

Play from 0:30:41 8:88:88 0:30:41 TV and um Roku and uh then we look overseas and Sky TV and the list goes on and on and on. So, if each of those platforms have one channel, you're now multiplying that 8,000 minutes times, you know, 20 different streamers. So, there really isn't a competition that people think that there is in AI creation, especially right now because there's we're really like the early adopters. There's not a lot of people that are making really long or even medium form coherent content. And, you know, in a 30 minute package, you could have three 10-minute shorts. Um, and and there's even that not many people do in 10 minutes right now. We're seeing more people get in there. And I think the agent stuff kind of helps with that, but that's just one slice. And then you have

Play from 0:31:27 8:88:88 0:31:27 advertising. You know, I have a game in development right now around Route 47. They're doing Gorbo's swimhole and I'm doing assets for that. And so there's so many different avenues where AI can be plugged in. Whether it's a feature film in the theater, whether it's fast TV that's adported, whether it's a video game, whether it's commercials. I mean, I think we even see now like 51% of engagement on social media is a bot or aic in some form. And that was released about a month ago or I think in June they announced that. And so within a year, all of the media that we're going to see is going to be synthetic media in one form or another. Um, and there's there's enough opportunity for everybody to like if you're you only want to do ads, great. That's your lane. Stay there. Do that. Make that money. There's

Play from 0:32:13 8:88:88 0:32:13 a lot of money there. early adoption with AI and video came from advertising. Um, so there's a there's a strong in there. Now we're seeing distribution into television. I think that's like the next step. Um, and do you think like from an AI perspective, right? Like there's a lot of AI creators, I'm sure there's a bunch listening to this right now that are that are very focused on film and developing IP and things like that.

Play from 0:32:36 8:88:88 0:32:36 Mhm. Does the traditional does the traditional path seem like it's like it's toast? like the traditional means to getting things into production. Do you think it's more of a YouTube build a following then pitch kind of game or like a social build a following is like is there a new direction to it?

0:32:44How does AI content reach mainstream media?

Play from 0:32:51 8:88:88 0:32:51 There's no oneizefits-all. I think you know I think it's really like we've seen a success over the summer that Kane had with back rooms and obsession. There's definitely a path to success from the monetization from YouTube. I mean look, YouTube is the largest ad platform right now by a significant mile. So, there's something to be said about like building an audience on YouTube, getting a social following, and then getting picked up that way. We've seen Gossip Goblin announce he has, you know, a project coming up with a featurelength film being released in theaters. So, I don't think there's necessarily like one path.

Play from 0:33:25 8:88:88 0:33:25 It just is finding where you the work you do can be brought into that. And a lot of it is networking to be honest. You know, you you hit a certain level where your content is good enough. At that point, it's like, who who else do you know? And that's where the Hollywood kind of thing comes in, right? The traditional method of like, you know, hobnobbing at parties and and deals getting done in back rooms, that still exists. I think that's always going to exist. But I think with social media and even we see with micro dramas, like there is a real pipeline from building an organic audience into the mainstream.

Play from 0:34:02 8:88:88 0:34:02 It's not glamorous. I mean, my I've been grinding this for years and it's not an easy thing to do, but if you believe in it and it's worthwhile, like you can you can get there.

Play from 0:34:13 8:88:88 0:34:13 That's that's interesting because I remember I texted you a while back and I don't understand a lot of the way this industry works the especially on the film and production side because I haven't been on it. I haven't been like really in it. But like there's a lot of talk of financeers and financing this stuff,

Play from 0:34:29 8:88:88 0:34:29 right? like how how can something This is this is my confusion. Anyone sorry for if I if I sound stupid or just like ignorant of the fact I'm just not I'm not seeing financing like what what are they getting the returns on for financing some of this stuff because it's been a big talking point in the film scene on this.

0:34:34How do AI film projects get financed?

Play from 0:34:46 8:88:88 0:34:46 Yeah, there's a couple ways. Um I think what we've seen so far is that there's been an investment in the AI companies and and even Amazon you know earlier this year made the announcement to you know for better or worse for the creator fund that they had that there is some frontloading of funding that's happening which works as a marketing mechanism either for the a for the you know generation company or for the distribution platforms where they pay for content upfront. Um, but then there needs to be like in any creative arts, there needs to be a replenishment. And so when your project is released, the money you make from that is what replenishes you to be able to continue your art. This has been true for painters, for photographers, for film.

Play from 0:35:28 8:88:88 0:35:28 Like you you bankroll projects by the money you've made from other projects. So it's really hard to get going. You know, luckily at West Coast AI Labs, we're all self-funded. like we don't have money backing us that came in and you know we didn't take an investment from any sort of company. We've all done this like through our own work and our own our own money. Um and we retain control of everything which is you know powerful position to be in as you get bigger and bigger and bigger because I don't answer to someone else. Um and the companies that I work with I've I've talked with them before like I'm I'm not going to do your you know sponsored post for $150. It's insulting for me to even consider that for the amount of work that goes into something like that. Um, but I think now as fast TV is opening up, which has been,

Play from 0:36:15 8:88:88 0:36:15 you know, 18 months of of development to get to that point because there's contracts between the streamers and stuff, ad revenue will start to be that replenishment cycle. Gossip Goblin, he gets tickets for his film, starts making money from it. Uh, investors are happy, he gets a replenishment cycle. So ad work, same thing, right? You finish a project for an ad, you get paid for it, it gives you the money to to do more ad work. So, the hardest part is just getting the ball rolling. Once the ball's rolling, then it's pretty good.

Play from 0:36:42 8:88:88 0:36:42 Like, now we have clients that are lining up to work with us and we almost have like more work than we can handle basically because we have a location people can come to and we can show them in real time like here's what I can make for you. We had a client come over that we're working with on [clears throat] some ad projects and in real time we were able to show them mockups within, you know, a matter of minutes and that is a very powerful thing to like take that digital product into a real world and have a conversation. You know, you mentioned like the moniker. I was behind the scenes for so long. I didn't really want to be in front of a camera. It makes me super uncomfortable being in front of a camera talking to people. I'm like very socially anxious. But uh I felt that there was like a need for more creators that are actually in the space to be

Play from 0:37:28 8:88:88 0:37:28 like talking about this realistically and you know show that there are actually adults in the room who are you know thinking about the the broader implications of all this stuff.

Play from 0:37:38 8:88:88 0:37:38 I think that's so needed when our entire Instagram feed is filled with you know

Play from 0:37:46 8:88:88 0:37:46 Yeah. Do we want to open that door? I know Blacklight's got some thoughts on that one. We call it hi-fi slop. Yeah, it's

Play from 0:37:55 8:88:88 0:37:55 hi-fi slop where it's visually arresting, but there's zero substance to it and you know that someone's paid to boost that. Like again in digital marketing, you look at all of the metrics online as vanity metrics that can be bought. All of them. So like as much as I love to say like, oh, I've gotten, you know, all these millions of views, that doesn't mean anything. Like you can point to those numbers all day long, but if you've spent, you know, $10,000 to get those likes and counts that you're then going to point to to an investor, that's a dangerous proposition because you really only get one of those. And if you it up, you're never going to have someone offer that to you again. So, it's uh it's much easier to do a proof of concept. And I think a lot of people that are creating content, I say like do it first on the

0:38:14What is “Hi-Fi Slop” and why does it fail?

Play from 0:38:41 8:88:88 0:38:41 shoestring budget. make it, see if it works, see if you have an audience for it, then get funding. But if you're trying to like Higsfield it and throw 500 grand at a project that nobody likes the characters and it's it's hard to get through an hour of content, you just wasted a half a million dollars.

Play from 0:39:00 8:88:88 0:39:00 That's my great way to put it. Uh it's it's really that stuff has been like you're one of the people that I've recognized as like there there like I can see the vision right like I see the vision like I see oh we're going to develop IP we're going to develop world we're going to own this entire space we're going to keep developing the characters like there feels like a flourishing type of environment here which is to me much easier to buy into than someone who's made one good 20 minute video which is like is there longevity to that like I see yours like you can go you can take this, you know, tributary system, you know, from the river into many different directions. It feels

Play from 0:39:39 8:88:88 0:39:39 expanding it. Like we have other artists that we've brought into West Coast AI Labs, you know, particular UNO's down in South America. Cat is in Florida, you know, and it's really just showing people like, hey, here's here's the path that I've walked. Here's how I've done it. Let me help you now. you're you have a unique voice, a unique vision and if we can bring other artists along with us and we've talked to many artists like Dr. Dreams, Ryan Lightborn, Sam Wasserman, like a lot of people that are all in the same headsp space of like seeing the vision. Sometimes people just need to be have that sounding board with someone else to talk to and say, am I doing am I moving in the right direction? And I say, okay, if you want distribution, you need to be able to create an episode of something. So make

0:40:00How do shorts become a real series?

Play from 0:40:24 8:88:88 0:40:24 your first episode. You've done a lot of shorts now. So now think about making a story. And that that's all it is is do it the first time. Once you do it, then it becomes easier to think about it in that way. And once you create a story, then you're like, "Oh, wait. I have other characters in this world." And that's how it starts. And uh being able to show other people that and and be along for the ride. And I'm not asking for, you know, a percentage of somebody else's work. We we pride ourselves in being independent artists in our collective. And we're not a studio model. There is no head of the studio.

Play from 0:40:56 8:88:88 0:40:56 Like we're independent. If I if I need help on a project, I'll ask one of the guys, hey, you want to hop in and work on this? We're revamping crypted dating games. So, it's nice to have that sounding board with other creators.

Play from 0:41:07 8:88:88 0:41:07 Freedom of control and the decision making, right? I think that you're mentioning that, too. And then also, I I I really like that point that you brought up about finding others that are in the same headsp space. I feel like that is actually more difficult than it sounds. And and if you have that ability, that's really special because I think AI is vast and people are just doing so many different things, right? Like even though Rory and I have a lot of overlap, we're we're kind of doing different things. You know what I mean?

Play from 0:41:37 8:88:88 0:41:37 Um but like my relationship with Rory and talking to him every week helps me a ton. Like he understands the situations I'm in, I understand the situations he's in. There's enough overlap there, but that's like so so valuable. And so I I think that's just like a good point. If anybody's listening to this and you don't feel like that's the case, like maybe this is a good time to see if you can find those people. It it may be a little bit harder uh to find, but that's that's also the great part of social media is it makes it maybe you can find somebody. That's how I found you, Rory.

Play from 0:42:06 8:88:88 0:42:06 I mean, that's you know, there we go, man. So that's how we found Blacklight also. I mean, you know, you

Play from 0:42:12 8:88:88 0:42:12 that's that's it. Now, I don't know like who else to go to takes for when I think I, you know, when I think I got a a good perspective on something, I did your social media takes like from a

Play from 0:42:26 8:88:88 0:42:26 they're just they're just like again the zigwin zag. It's never like the total like this is what the whole populace is saying. There's always like a little bit underneath, right? Like and you can see it and I always appreciate it because it's not

Play from 0:42:38 8:88:88 0:42:38 It's authentic. Yeah, it's authentic. You're not afraid to say something that people disagree with. Contrary, I get lots of hate comments, too. I mean, I've had people make hate art about me and they want to disparrage me. And I honestly I don't care. And I I've made posts about it before. And it's not it's not coming from arrogance. It's that I work full-time. I you know, like you guys, we all live busy lives. Social media and parasocial relationships like rank very low on my on my to-do list of things that I'm worried about. And I just can't be bothered to like engage in that sort of negativity over time. It's just not worth it.

Play from 0:43:11 8:88:88 0:43:11 Does it not get you fired up though every once in a while when someone leaves something? I I definitely still get it. I just I actually there was once someone made something. It was like the they called me the gatekeeper and they had me in this like thrown behind a velvet rope and then like the very next post it said um don't disparage other artists. And I actually took a screenshot of the two of those back toback because I was like man this was such a perfect like conceptualization of irony in one post.

Play from 0:43:39 8:88:88 0:43:39 Retweet it. Y for people that block me and then continue to like stalk my page and micromanage all the actions that I do. It's like whatever.

Play from 0:43:47 8:88:88 0:43:47 You got a few of those. I think there's a few uh [laughter] longing. When you also make knocks at billion dollar companies, you're going to have people that kind of cate on you and so

Play from 0:43:56 8:88:88 0:43:56 do you have any any character inspiration for those people that end up in the uh in the show? Any any sort of character traits or things like that that end up in the in the world? Maybe the character traits, but I try not to idolize uh I try to not idolize people that are negative in my life. Not

Play from 0:44:12 8:88:88 0:44:12 you got to be pulling some stuff from real life though. Like you got to be pulling some real life experience into you have so much. Well, this we're doing like stuntman stew now. like we're all doing kind of some Portland content and so I'm doing this like stunt man Stew character that we were joking about in the uh in the studio and uh yeah so we definitely pull you can see it up there uh up a little bit more right there so that's uh this is from Underworld and he's he started doing kind of Portland content and then Tupa did it for a promo for it but you know we do the West Coast labs it's it even says on there like counterculture connoisseurs and we really want to create stuff that is not the cookie cutter kind of generic corporate because again a lot of these Gen AI companies also have investors and

Play from 0:44:59 8:88:88 0:44:59 culture is not made by what an investor likes. I'm sorry like culture is made by the consumers and how the tools are used. And I think it's hilarious that you have you know some of these investors sometimes making things and saying I love this. Well, you're not the the creator of culture and especially in AI. Like, I'm sorry. No one cares what a millionaire thinks about like art. Like, this is that bridge right there. I drive past it every single day. Like, he made art about like the perceptions of Portland. We're kind of expanding on that.

Play from 0:45:31 8:88:88 0:45:31 Yeah. Would an investor care that that that you see that bridge every day? No. Yeah. I drive by this bridge all the time.

Play from 0:45:37 8:88:88 0:45:37 No, I'm saying like an investor wouldn't give a You know what I mean? No, they wouldn't they wouldn't care. Yeah. But I mean think about like we talked about earlier like the cultural references like what are the cultural references of the 2020s?

Play from 0:45:48 8:88:88 0:45:48 Patrick and Fish. I [laughter] mean sorry 2020s sorry co memes. That's what I'm saying like we're moving into the space now where like AI can be a culture mover um and be a culture creator. And I think that those things are important but they're not going to be coming from an investor.

Play from 0:46:07 8:88:88 0:46:07 Yeah. As much as they want it to be it's just not. So this is probably I mean I get it now on the Gen Z Gen Alpha side because that's been a big trend especially in my you know in my little circles is is how

Play from 0:46:21 8:88:88 0:46:21 how unpolished everything needs to be to get that market to pay attention. Authenticity is a big thing like and and then that's kind of the thing that I noticed early on why my stuff moved and other people's didn't is that if you're trying to recreate existing media, you're trying to trick the audience into thinking that. And if the audience feels like you're trying to pull a fast one on them, they're going to immediately disengage. But if they look at something and like, okay, this is clearly AI. Like they made this character of me. They call it Buffite.

Play from 0:46:51 8:88:88 0:46:51 They did this one night at the office when I wasn't here and it's become like this whole character. [laughter]

0:46:52Why can obvious AI feel more authentic?

Play from 0:46:59 8:88:88 0:46:59 Stupid. Yeah. Yes. There we go. Yeah. Let me rewind it. Let me rewind it for you, Rory.

Play from 0:47:05 8:88:88 0:47:05 There he is. Okay. So, this is Tupa. Tupac's got over 100,000 followers on X. Huge UFO community. We made all these different characters of us. And so, someone's like talking about they're like, "We hate AI." And I'm like, "You don't know shit." And I just throw the chair. So, were you an Art Bell fan, too? Is that Is that an influence back in the day? All right. I can see all I see the Cryptids. I see the UFOs, all this stuff now because I I'm a big I was a big fan also. I love that whole world.

Play from 0:47:32 8:88:88 0:47:32 I think it's cool, too, because like a lot of people we've seen over the years were very close to the shore creatively and very there wasn't a lot of people taking risks. I mean, I could count them, you know, on maybe two hands in the early AI scene who were really trying to push away and create something new. But now that the tools are getting better and there's been more people that have shown that you can make really truly wild original stuff, we're starting to see new exciting original stuff that has never been made before.

0:47:57What is AI's real creative opportunity?

Play from 0:48:02 8:88:88 0:48:02 And that to me is like that's the purpose of AI. That's the excitement of AI is like really moving into a space that shows people that this is not just replication of of something that's existed. This is a truly new art form and you can expand on it. It's It's awesome. Drew Drew, are you familiar with ArtBell? Is it

Play from 0:48:21 8:88:88 0:48:21 Oh, man. That's a rabbit hole. Go down. It's amazing. It's a Is that a What is that? Is that a show? Is that a He's a radio host. [clears throat]

Play from 0:48:28 8:88:88 0:48:28 Radio. Yeah. He did a show like a late night show AM coast to coast. He would do like paranormal stuff and have people call in.

Play from 0:48:36 8:88:88 0:48:36 Yeah. The t, you know, you get like the crazy stories, then you get people that were like, you know, basically like CIA plans calling.

Play from 0:48:42 8:88:88 0:48:42 I'm surprised based on the things that I like that I haven't. It's it's interesting because there's a few big, you know, like I've heard Joe Rogan mention him a million times. I've heard I I don't know if you're familiar with the Y Files account on uh on YouTube. He's a big Art Bell fan. Now you're a big It's like it all it seems like it it it again archetyping like it works as like a sort of like an inspiration point for a lot of people into where, you know, their careers and interests went. It's just a the show's awesome. Drew, if you go look up some of the best Art Bell moments on YouTube, it's it's epic. [laughter]

Play from 0:49:14 8:88:88 0:49:14 Yeah. I'll I'll check I'll definitely check that out. I I'm curious with the

Play from 0:49:21 8:88:88 0:49:21 So going going to like you made this this really good point too of uh this this separation from people making sort of the these these original things versus tying on to something that's pop culture related. Yeah. It could pop off on social but it's not original, right? It can also maybe deter certain audiences, certain demographics from those things. Um, we didn't talk about this last week, Rory, but well, we I think we just like anecdoted it, but Miniax H3 dropped. You also told me hot take for for this episode. H3 better than C dance 2.5. Um, and I think like um tell me a little bit more about that.

Play from 0:50:00 8:88:88 0:50:00 I'm going to kind of find some of the tweets that you have here to support it, but I mean like with with that's a good example, right? It seems like when when a new model hits and I've seen this with H3 like I'm seeing like a lot of like Seinfeld stuff or a lot of these like

0:50:14MiniMax H3 vs Seedance 2.5

Play from 0:50:14 8:88:88 0:50:14 you know shows and it's and it's funny right but like from a from a creator standpoint that's trying to build IP or be original right like doesn't really hold any value. So I'd be more curious from that side how how you might leverage

Play from 0:50:27 8:88:88 0:50:27 Yeah. So you're seeing a lot of the Seinfeld stuff because H3 is they open sourced it which means you could download it and run it locally on your own model. there's going to be very little restrictions to something like that.

Play from 0:50:39 8:88:88 0:50:39 And so again, people that are like not don't think about, you know, original creativity, they're going to glob on to what's going to go viral. The Castanza thing's been going on for, you know, a year now. It's very similar to the Will Smith eating spaghetti. It's like kind of easy go-tos to test how a model is. Um, if we look at where H3 landed right now with Flux and Juan and Cance 2.5, H3 is a generational leap for Miniax whereas Cedance 2.5 is really it's a.5 update. It's not the real update. Rumors are abound that there is Cance 3 that's already done and being tweaked and worked on. I think the biggest improvements that we've seen on CDAN 2.5

Play from 0:51:24 8:88:88 0:51:24 is the the 50 image reference or 50 reference increase and the 30-cond uh generations. But again, a lot of this comes down to cost and the problem with Seance 2 was that audio custom audio upload. So someone like me who's had an IP for 2 years, I have custom character audios. I need to be able to use those custom audios with a character reference. Seance 2 would not do that. There was workarounds with like the black screen and the audio and uploading that, but that's just more work, right?

Play from 0:51:54 8:88:88 0:51:54 That's not a fix. That's a workaround. And Cance 2.5 seems to have kind of gotten better at that. But H3 out of the gate, I put in an audio upload and my character the first time it worked. And when we're talking about, you know,510 $15 for a generation depending on, you know, fidelity and length of the clip, that has to be perfect. Like it's we're we're past the the random slot machine stage of AI. We're at the point where you need to be able to wield this tool and use it. And if I fundamentally cannot use your tool for the the content that I need to make, then you're not building for me. I don't know who you're building for, but it's not the person who is like a power user using it every day. And if if you can have 50

Play from 0:52:41 8:88:88 0:52:41 references or a 100 references, if it doesn't work with one reference, I don't care if it's 300 references, I'm never going to use that.

Play from 0:52:49 8:88:88 0:52:49 It's And so to me, if I can Well said, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Like if I can use my my custom reference and my upload and I can give it a prompt and it aderes to the prompt, it aderes to the audio and adheres to the character on the first go at a discounted rate or I can run it locally. Yeah, you're winning the race in my opinion. Are you running

Play from 0:53:10 8:88:88 0:53:10 locally? I'm not personally. Um, but other guys in the studio are and we we can we've talked about it. I'm a big fan of running things not locally and using an infra platform like run comfy or comfy uh cloud or something like that mainly because historically when you start to run comfy on something like that your whole machine is tied up doing that and as someone who is creating like you know five to 10 minute episodes in a day I'm usually doing three or four different things at the same time it's easier for me to switch through windows the guys make fun of me my screen right here is like 46 it's like a 46 inch screen that I active. And so I have like I have a window here like right now I have six different windows that are open

0:53:38Local AI video vs cloud generation

Play from 0:53:53 8:88:88 0:53:53 and I have different things that are all going on. That's how I work. And so if I were to run that locally I wouldn't be able to do that. And so I think longterm at scale if you're a creator at scale you're going to be running things through infra especially as the models have higher and higher requirements.

Play from 0:54:10 8:88:88 0:54:10 Interesting. So you're you're developing an episode a day. Um, I can right now I'm doing a lot of like client work and other projects and stuff, but yeah, I mean like for the first year I did two minutes every single day on TikTok and even to like 200 or 300 views, I just didn't care. I just every single day just posted something, got in the habit of just making something, doing those reps, doing that over and over, that commitment to craft as it were. Um, and now like I did for streaming uh 17 minutes of Mysterious Planet, which was like an alien documentary show, I did 17 minutes in one day.

0:54:39How fast can one AI creator produce?

Play from 0:54:46 8:88:88 0:54:46 Insane, dude. But that the one thing I will say though, Miniax and for like for whatever even from their first iteration of Miniax feels like it it fits your aesthetic, not just from like the aesthetic and like the motion, but it has like a little

Play from 0:55:02 8:88:88 0:55:02 quirkiness to it in a good way. Like it was always good, too, Rory. Always was always good with styles.

Play from 0:55:09 8:88:88 0:55:09 Yeah. Yeah. And I'm super stoked for more people to be talking about Flux and seeing what that does. I'm a I've been a big fan of Black Forest Labs from the very beginning. I still have like Gorbbo Swimhole is a Flux one custom model and I still use that. And so,

Play from 0:55:26 8:88:88 0:55:26 tell us about Flux 3 because we haven't we haven't really talked about that on the show yet. Yeah, more more in the open from uh Black Forest Labs video model uh image and video. Um but it's good. I did a a couple clips with it. Um 15second clips. Yep. So Justine's posted it really good with this retro style. Uh dialogue is good on it. Um it's open. Some platforms are adopting it now. So I know Craya has it. I think a couple other I'm not sure if Magnific does. I mean, there's been so all these models kind of dropped at the same time after this. What do we have like eight months drought or six months drought of no new updates and then they all came out at the same time.

0:55:55What is Flux 3?

Play from 0:56:07 8:88:88 0:56:07 Um, but not to be, you know, undermined. There's definitely something there. And again, if if you can run it locally, I know guys that are running like multiple 5090s at this point. And if you can do that and run it, that that brings your cost down. And so as a creator who's again trying to maybe bootstrap this and get things going, if you have that technology already, do what you need to do to do that. Because say you you say you sign up for a project and it's a $5,000 project and you're running Sea Dance, but it cost you $500 to run one 15-second clip and you're making a 10-minute episode, you're never going to make any profit on that. And so you have to think about like the cost average of these generations. And that's where Flux and H3 actually have an advantage over MiniaC or over a C dance right now

Play from 0:56:55 8:88:88 0:56:55 because you can you can bring that cost way way way down and and iterate significantly faster. And that's part of the creative process, right, is iterating and and practicing. And if you're if it's $5 a pop on Cance, it's painful when it comes out wrong. This you don't need C dance for everything, right? I mean, like there's there's stuff that doesn't Sea dance doesn't need to be used for. There's things that it's great at, but it's like you can get away with grock for some of the things that you need tool for the job.

0:56:57How do you control AI generation costs?

Play from 0:57:21 8:88:88 0:57:21 You know what I mean? It's knowing when to use the right tool. And that's one of the things where like, you know, someone new coming into AI is going to can be easily overwhelmed because there are all of these you mentioned, you know, the the quirkiness of Miniax. They all have their own little thing. And if you that only comes from experience of using these tools um over time and that's why like you know people that have been in the space for a long time demand a a pretty high price because they had to spend their own money to get to that knowledge level and that's why I also feel like workflows and stuff should not be free because you don't understand the cost that went behind someone learning all of that.

Play from 0:58:00 8:88:88 0:58:00 Yeah, that's that's a that's a great point. There is I mean there is a when when people ask that stuff like how much does the entire like process cost? I'm like for me it's different than it would be for someone else. It's probably different for Drew too. Like he might do it more efficiently than I did or I might do it you know more efficiently than he did. But also there's like the reason I can get to this point is because I've failed 10,000 times on these other platforms to know like

Play from 0:58:24 8:88:88 0:58:24 just go with you know just go with cling on this one for C dance because it's just gonna listen and you're not going to waste a lot of time. Also, it was nice, you know, especially early on when you could just get unlimited gens with a lot of these platforms.

Play from 0:58:37 8:88:88 0:58:37 I think we're going to get back to that to be honest with you. Do you do because of competition or Well, if you think about it from like a company standpoint, what what's really happening on the back end is they're either renting or they own the servers. And when you hit a certain threshold of users that can fit on a server, say there's you got like I'm using arbitrary numbers here. Say it's 100 people. If a 100 people are paying you $100 a month, but it only costs $8 an hour to run that, you know, you can do the math that at that point everything else is just profit for the company. You're just renting you're just running the servers for those people all the time. Yeah. And at that point, you're really only limited by how many gens the server can run in an hour uh under those pricing models. And so unlimited really is an is

0:59:06How do unlimited AI generations work?

Play from 0:59:25 8:88:88 0:59:25 a number that exists. There's, you know, if it takes 10 minutes for a generation, you're only going to run six in an hour. But if you can run six every single hour, that's unlimited.

Play from 0:59:35 8:88:88 0:59:35 So unlimited is a is a misnomer in marketing. It's a good ploy and it's a way to get people in and it is possible, but it's possible to do that and also be profitable. Just a lot of these companies aren't doing that or if they don't have the user base to support the pricing of those machines. Um, and I'm using very like rudimentary basic numbers here, but the concept holds as you scale. How much of um the the tools that you use are based on the brand equity versus the capability? So, because like to your point, right, like let's just assume all things are equal.

Play from 1:00:13 8:88:88 1:00:13 Mhm. You know, who who you know, like why would you choose A versus B, you know, and I think we kind of maybe touch on like knowing the right tool for the job, but like maybe let's assume they do very close things.

Play from 1:00:25 8:88:88 1:00:25 Yeah. then is it really about the brand equity and like maybe where you feel more comfortable and and how are companies even

1:00:29Brand equity vs capability in AI tools

Play from 1:00:33 8:88:88 1:00:33 addressing that because I feel like they've all tried to to build community and in some ways they run similar playbooks in some ways they run different ones and it's it's not an easy thing but like that stickiness long long tail is is going to be huge. So, like I'm sure you've got a lot of insight here. Like what do you what do you think those things are? Maybe like what what are the

Play from 1:00:58 8:88:88 1:00:58 those those I guess one or two pieces of why you would choose A over B for I'll use I'll use Higsfield and I'll use uh Magnific as comparisons here, right? So Higsfield throws money at everything. And so if you look at anyone talking positively about Higsfield, scroll down, you'll see paid promotion. The only people talking positively about them at this point are people that they're paying. Whereas Magnific, they have been creator first and community first.

Play from 1:01:25 8:88:88 1:01:25 They've flown a lot of creators out to their offices to we've seen how they build. They build alongside us. I have a Slack channel. If I have problems, I can message them directly. I've worked very closely with them. They are they know who their audience is of builders. I've seen other companies who are building creative tools that want to exclude the creator altogether and they only want to focus on the the corporate side. Like why is and I always joke I'm like is enterprise here in the room with you?

Play from 1:01:53 8:88:88 1:01:53 Because if you saying you're building something for enterprise who in the enterprise is using your tools it's going to be the creative and so if you're ignoring the needs of the creative and you're not listening to the their pain points they're not going to want to work with you. I will always, you know, rep Korea and Magnific because these are companies that have supported me. They listen to the things that I need. They build around that. They they are they genuinely care about their community. And you could say, "Oh, a lot of companies do that." They don't all do that, you know, and and I would use those two as a very stark contrast.

Play from 1:02:27 8:88:88 1:02:27 Runway is another good example, right? They're very big on like the setting a certain bar in quality and film festivals and meetups and Timmy's engaged. I mean, he's on like 800 day 800 plus something of daily challenges. I mean, that's commitment right there to community. Those those things matter over time and brand equity definitely does play a part of it, especially as we get to the point where, you know, it all starts to to level out. I like, you know what, also with runway too, uh, Crystal Ball, I mean, he's he's very vocal and active and and I think like whether it's intentional, I mean, it feels authentic, but like you could just tell he he's very passionate and thinks very deeply and intellectually about the space,

Play from 1:03:12 8:88:88 1:03:12 you know, and I think like that also is another connector there where you're like, "Oh, yeah, like I can like I I want to be using something that aligns with somebody like that that's at the top

Play from 1:03:22 8:88:88 1:03:22 of maybe moving with that company." So I think that could also be interesting too. But yeah, he does a good job. When we went to Upscale, it was everyone from the CEO down, everyone that worked at that company was when we were there, they were genuinely engaged. They want to talk to you. They want to hear from you.

1:03:26Why do creators stay loyal to AI tools?

Play from 1:03:38 8:88:88 1:03:38 That's where you get the good stuff, man. If you're the company, that's where you get the good stuff. You know what I mean? That goes a long way. We know that as marketers, it's like if you're doing customer interviews, like that's where you get the juice, right? Like because you get the unfiltered

Play from 1:03:51 8:88:88 1:03:51 version of how they describe the product. the thing that they like the most that probably isn't even on your website, right? Like it's just like those types of things are invaluable. So I like and and it just says a lot when people like that bring people in and they truly value the opinion and you don't feel like it's just for show, right? Like

Play from 1:04:11 8:88:88 1:04:11 it's awesome. where I see other companies. I mean, Luma at one point when they first came out with Dream Machine, I was doing like stuff that I I didn't even see, like real walkthroughs, like living walkthroughs of stuff. And they had a really solid creator program and then they they essentially we had meetings with their team at one point and gave them ideas. They never credited us. They never thanked us. They implemented everything and then they kicked off all the creators and then they want to go and talk on these and you want some hot takes. Like here's my hot take, you know, like I don't want to see an executive from a company talk about creativity when you literally disrespected all of the early adopters that made your company valuable for you to get a seed funding. So for you to say you to all those creators and then turn around and talk on a stage like

Play from 1:04:58 8:88:88 1:04:58 you're some expert, no, that doesn't fly with me. And I have no problem calling it out. That's bad business.

Play from 1:05:04 8:88:88 1:05:04 Very bad business. And then to have the CEO come on and bicker because someone else does something. It's just childish. It's immature. And it and like again, we're not kids. There's this this field is full of professionals. We all see it. We all talk to each other in back channels. We're not stupid. So like that that reputation carries. And do you see anyone talking about Luma these days? Nope. Because you disrespected all of the people that wanted to use your tools. And that's a failure. The way they ripped off that CPP and just changed it overnight was crazy.

Play from 1:05:38 8:88:88 1:05:38 It was insulting. And honestly, I've always I was I've always been vocal. I was vocal to them from the beginning. I mean, I've seen it in other channels, too. If you have a you Discord community and you're disrespecting your your the people that are paying you to to like for a service, you don't spit in those customers faces. Like, I'm sorry. That's so like on the convers like on the conversely maybe that's the right word to use there on the other side of that like I've been a part of runways CPP since like Gen 2 so like really early on. Um I had a day

Play from 1:06:16 8:88:88 1:06:16 never asked for them. It's literally just share it if you want to share and it's it's I like one of the models of how to tree creative. I love when when uh Chris has the open sessions for us to talk like those val those feedback loops are valuable. I want as a creative to talk to the company and say, "Hey, this isn't quite working for me. Am I using it wrong or here's how I'm using it? Maybe it's built in a way that I'm not thinking about or you're not thinking about."

Play from 1:06:43 8:88:88 1:06:43 Yeah. So, those Yeah, I agree with you 100%. Like great company. They ran the model for it and like I have and I don't use Runway as much as I used to and I still have a really good feeling about them. I'm like, I feel great. I've they offered something a while back when they were launching their their workflow platform. Um, and it was like, you know, we're going to anyone any creators who have like custom workflows they want to build. We'll highlight them. We'll pay you $500. I just sent the workflow and was just like, put it up if you want to. Like, I don't need $500. You guys have given me enough free credits to to build, you know, to to build something, you know, from a social standpoint, but like

Play from 1:07:17 8:88:88 1:07:17 they they are great. I don't know if you've ever had experience with the team at Weave. They're immaculate. um in the same way like from that same sort of like family feel like we

Play from 1:07:27 8:88:88 1:07:27 they built it on the like the goal was to build via community. It wasn't like we're going to, you know, do anything differently than that. But

Play from 1:07:34 8:88:88 1:07:34 it makes a difference, man. Like longterm. Like I don't have a great I don't have a great view of Luma because of that. I don't feel like I trust them really ever again now.

Play from 1:07:42 8:88:88 1:07:42 And that that trust is a big thing in business, you know, when you lose that from a from a core audience of people. And stupidly from the early adopters, that is that's a bad play. I mean, and then in Higsfield's case, you know what I mean? like fool me once, shame on you, you know, shame on me or whatever. But how many times do you have to see a repeated action of poor business practices before you're like, I don't want my name tied to you at all. And I kind of feel bad for the people that, you know, there's been conversations around it before with friends and I know people that work with them that I'm friends with, but I'm like, you know, I know we all have mouths to feed, but the race really hasn't even started yet.

Play from 1:08:20 8:88:88 1:08:20 We're such at the early stage of this and if you're so quick to sell out your morals for a paycheck now, you know, it it really plays later on to like how successful are you really going to be?

Play from 1:08:30 8:88:88 1:08:30 But but Blacklight, I mean, didn't they they gave their salaries back for that month? [laughter]

Play from 1:08:36 8:88:88 1:08:36 You know, cuz they felt bad about it. We're sorry. The the perfect the perfect envisionment. I don't know if you guys have ever seen the the South Park episode where the sea it was like after I think it was like an oil spill um that happened and they did like a whole

Play from 1:08:49 8:88:88 1:08:49 We're sorry. We're sorry. That's that's Higsfield. Every single time they do something. We're sorry.

Play from 1:08:55 8:88:88 1:08:55 Even the first time they did it, they made a whole video. It was actually a mock video. They were mocking a video that happened to I think it was a Japanese company ice cream or something. They had like increase their prices and the Japanese company made a very genuine video of their whole company like bowing and saying they're sorry. Higsfield's first apology video was a mock of that making fun of and I'm like even apologizing you're just doubling down on being shitty like and those things like don't go past people like that carries weight over time similar to me you know what I mean my my reputation precedes me for being pretty sharp but uh you take it with the territory that's it is what it is you're rooted in morals though like I like your takes are your takes are consistent and they it's because they come from a place of like who you

Play from 1:09:42 8:88:88 1:09:42 are. But this stuff and that goes back to what we were talking about earlier. You know, it's the industry that I work in that I have to hit a certain a certain ethical layer that that's kind of just tainted my whole view of AI where there really is been a vacuum of any sort of like regulation or or conversations about the implication the larger implications of like deep fakes and things like that. I mean, that's that's a a serious thing that we have to talk about as a community and be very like cleareyed about energy use. And what does it mean for someone to potentially make a deep fake that could cause a crisis? Like those are legitimate concerns. And the reason it hasn't happened yet is the mutual respect all top creators kind of have for each other where it's like a wink and a nod where I'm not going to do something that gets the toys taken away

1:10:13Where should AI creators draw the line?

Play from 1:10:28 8:88:88 1:10:28 for all of us. But that comes from like professional courtesy more so than you know requirements or regulations.

Play from 1:10:35 8:88:88 1:10:35 That was like the Google Earth thing from two three weeks ago when they added Nano Banana into people started doing some because people started doing like you know like this city's on fire and burning you know that's a less extreme example

Play from 1:10:47 8:88:88 1:10:47 that was like up for what 48 hours cuz remember we brought it up and we're like we should have like talked about that more and then it was gone. It was like gone.

Play from 1:10:54 8:88:88 1:10:54 They just implemented it wrong like it didn't need to be in Google Maps. So it should have just been in Gemini in nanob like you plug in like the coordinates or whatever then you can generate the location as like set direction and things like that like it didn't need to be in Google Earth cuz I feel like I saw that I was like that feels like something something that could be exploited a little bit and then

Play from 1:11:14 8:88:88 1:11:14 we're normally we've seen people run the line you know whether it's you know gassing someone up and glazing them or you know tearing someone down those those things have weight to them and I think some creators that have done that before have conversations with them. I'm like, "Hey, look, like I get it. You're a top creator, but like think about what the weight of that also means. There is a responsibility here that we have to present the best of AI. I could have not done Route 47 and for the past 3 years and I can make I've done it. I mean, I did it last night here of being like, you want proof of life and I did a whole video. Did I post it online?" No. But is it something fun that I could do here?

Play from 1:11:52 8:88:88 1:11:52 Yeah, 100%. and send to your friends and joke around, you know, like smart turtle transformer. [laughter]

Play from 1:12:03 8:88:88 1:12:03 Oh my god, that's a good one. I like that. Mhm. It's the ridiculousness level of it that like you understand that it's not real,

Play from 1:12:10 8:88:88 1:12:10 but also because it's also done in AI, it's like same thing as South Park. You can get through a lot more stuff. Like it doesn't have to be you don't have to build your entire movie around a

Play from 1:12:19 8:88:88 1:12:19 30sec anime is another great example. And then it shows the power of like being able to iterate on the fly. You're making reality more exciting for people who might not be engaged. If AI can create reality in a more palatable way, an exciting way, entertaining way to get people engaged, there is a net positive to be to be garnered there, but at the same resolve, you know, you have the the equal side of it where it could do a lot of damage. So there there's a it's a lot to think about. I I I become I don't know if you've become this, but for my extended family and friends, I just get sent things every day. Is this real? And I'm like, I can't guys like I don't want to play forensics all the time, but like [laughter]

Play from 1:12:59 8:88:88 1:12:59 that's is the cat playing ping pong, it's fake. [laughter] If the cat is playing ping pong, it's fake, right? Like, you know, they can't actually do that. But and some of this stuff Drew and I went through the went through the SpaceX video the other like last week on uh you know the the rocket la landing in the ocean. We're looking at it like

Play from 1:13:19 8:88:88 1:13:19 there's something that seems off but it could be real but I'm also looking at it now because I know the possibility is there right and I know the looks like a 3D render and if it's can be 3D you know if you can do something in 3D and you can use an LLM now you can basically do whatever you want. Um,

Play from 1:13:34 8:88:88 1:13:34 I tell people now if you see it online, you have to assume that it's fake until it's been proven that it's not. I think they're really going to have to get that under control, especially like with the things that we're talking about. We were talking about this like a few weeks ago where like there's the metadata in these things, but like if you were to take that into a third party tool, sometimes that metadata gets wiped.

Play from 1:13:52 8:88:88 1:13:52 And so it seems like now they're they're just trying to permanently embed these things in, which ultimately gives them the ability to label them and do all that. And I think we've seen that uh take place in the EU. I mean, I don't live there, but it seems like they're moving faster on the enforcing the AI content transparency rules. So, that'll be something to watch as we get closer, you know, 2027, 2028. Um, especially just because it can be weaponized.

Play from 1:14:19 8:88:88 1:14:19 But, I got to ask this. Do do you have like I feel like you're so into the the creation world. Are you using Claude, GPT, any of those tools like personally on the personal side? Do you anything like totally out out of the box not related to work? Because I feel like there's we Drew and I talked about this last week of how much stuff we actually use it for. It's like it's a little ridiculous.

Play from 1:14:44 8:88:88 1:14:44 Yeah. Yeah. No, I I It's funny. There's I use it mainly for work. That's pretty much it for and for organization of like scripts because my world is so big. I need a reference body. I use it for that. But like I've seen people who will a like don't know how to live their I have a crossroads in my life a decision to make. They ask Claude

Play from 1:15:06 8:88:88 1:15:06 that. But if you look at we have this running theory at West Coast AI labs that there is a nonzero number of AI companies that are being run by Claude right now because the ideas are all the same, the pushes are all the same. You can see the product launches are all the same. So, how many of these companies are asking Claude, "What should I develop next?" And Claude is essentially running all of these companies in the same direction.

Play from 1:15:31 8:88:88 1:15:31 Yeah. Yep. And so, that's our that's our running theory right now. But, uh I I I think if you're using it for reference, that's one thing. If you're using it for like advice and how to like live and things like that, that's that's a danger zone. I I see it a lot with like kind of some the Silicon Valley and the San Francisco people like AI psychosis is a real thing where like people can't function without asking their LLM first. That's a very dangerous place to be. Like retain your your humanness and your thought process and like even conversations with people, you know, I can tell when someone's responding to me with Claude and I'm never going to get an argument with that person because you're never going to win. There's always going to be a rebuttal to it. It's not even worth the

Play from 1:16:16 8:88:88 1:16:16 effort. Yeah. So, like unless we can have an organic conversation and I'm man enough. If I'm wrong on something, cool, I'm wrong. I'm happy to say that I'm wrong and learn something new, I would rather that be the case than constantly feel like I'm right because AI told me I'm right.

Play from 1:16:32 8:88:88 1:16:32 Sicyopantic nature. It's tough. That's a It's a weird thing. And I noticed I think a lot of people are using it to say they're using it like that don't actually use it at work. Like I

Play from 1:16:41 8:88:88 1:16:41 don't need it. If you don't need it, don't use it. Someone was telling me that they their their CEO like has Claude dress them every day. And I'm pretty sure that's just a function of them being going to other meetings with CEOs and being like, you know, I love your dress. It's like, oh, Claude dressed me today, you know, like it's just like a it's like a way to to to stay in the the cool kids club at this point cuz it's it's not

Play from 1:17:03 8:88:88 1:17:03 which is so crazy from one two years ago. It felt like the cool kids club was hate on AI and here's this little AI sector over here. And now it's like the other way. Now it's like everyone best ever got to use it every day. You're not using AI. Our whole business uses AI

Play from 1:17:17 8:88:88 1:17:17 pendulum all the way back and then before it settles somewhere in between the two. Yeah. Yeah. But now you're using it. You don't even realize it. I mean a lot of this AI if you think about it is like really just a series of algorithms.

Play from 1:17:29 8:88:88 1:17:29 Yeah. And that's the old verbiage right from marketing space. You know how you know algorithms work and stuff. That's all this is. it's all code and programs that are kind of running. And so when you understand it in that context, you're less inclined to rely on it as much because you you recognize how it's built and how how it works. Um, you know, one token or one word can change an entire response chain. Um, and I think that's why I like what are the stakes behind what you're doing too, right? Like there there are certain cases where right where it's like hey like if it knows how I draw up my my proposals and s so hell yeah I'm going to use it right like I've got a templated format like why would I waste two hours doing that when it's a repeatable thing with low you know low

Play from 1:18:14 8:88:88 1:18:14 stakes in the terms of like how I present those things there are a lot of things that are codified true that are going to be in every you know piece and then I'm just changing certain variables right

Play from 1:18:23 8:88:88 1:18:23 so I think like the stakes also matter in in deciding you know what it is like to your point like how how lifealtering is this and would you be good with the result if AI didn't give you the right answer quote unquote right and and you ultimately had to live with that I think that's going to be something that people experience more and more here

1:18:26Should AI make personal decisions?

Play from 1:18:43 8:88:88 1:18:43 is they're going to be making big decisions based on that and then how does that make them feel when the time comes that it's not right

Play from 1:18:54 8:88:88 1:18:54 yeah and medical I mean that's the thing that I worry about the most is like and I'm most intrigued by like I would love to get to a point where there's going to come a point where money is not necessary. I fully agree with him to be honest with you like there does come a point where you we're not going to need a lot of the scarcity is not a thing of the 21st century. It is an artificial thing that is created to to maintain existing power structures. But scarcity is not real. It's a madeup thing at this point. We have the technology. We have the resources. We know how to plug everything together. Um we're just stuck in this system because to you know people don't un can't see a world that doesn't exist without it. Um but it's coming like

Play from 1:19:39 8:88:88 1:19:39 the auto such a big shift like you can't even wrap your mind around right like well why why would I have to do that or why would I have to work? Well like yeah if money wasn't an issue what would you be doing today? You know I have friends that would be doctors. I have friends that would be veterinarians. I have friends that would work in construction. They would love to work in construction, but it doesn't pay enough or they they don't have the opportunity to do that right now. But you would see a shift in in the ways that people do it. And like Portland, we get on all the time because all the things that happen on the West Coast.

Play from 1:20:13 8:88:88 1:20:13 But same thing there. Scarcity of resources. There is no shortage of homes. There is no shortage of help if people want it. There's no shortage of food or services. those things are all possible to take care of, but they exist for a reason. Um, so I I think that over time as we get older, we're starting to see that those the more people kind of wake up to that reality, we're going to see a shift in how we fundamentally think and data is the digital gold. So, you know, your like your physical likeness, the way you work, the workflows, the way your brain thinks, the way you operate on certain things, the way you live your life. If you're just giving that to an LLM out every day, you're just telling a company all of your digital data points. And you

Play from 1:20:58 8:88:88 1:20:58 would be surprised right now, like the credit companies, let's talk about credit bureaus, they have like 37 different data points that they have on you that they can pull from your social media, from anything that's publicly available to them. And that that exists today before AI.

Play from 1:21:14 8:88:88 1:21:14 Yeah. Fun. They don't need to know they don't need to know anything else. They got enough on me. I'm good. You know, we're good. [laughter] surprised though. But your buying behaviors, for example, if you're scrolling at night and they know that your purchasing decisions happen between 9:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m., they're going to feed you the things that you're most likely to buy during those time periods.

Play from 1:21:34 8:88:88 1:21:34 Well, and you got the you got they're they're trying to connect finances and health now, right? Like they're trying to get you to connect the health data that you have and your finance data to. And I'm just like, and people are like, oh, they, you know, they they have that sort of like sunk cost fallacy where it's just like, well, they already got, you know, they already know everything anyway, you know, and it's just like, dude,

Play from 1:21:54 8:88:88 1:21:54 what? Like I I just maybe eventually we get pushed to do that, but that doesn't feel like anything I'm pulling the trigger on anytime soon.

Play from 1:22:02 8:88:88 1:22:02 Yeah. Altruism and capitalism don't don't really mix very well together. If we get to the point where it's about the greater good and and until that day comes, like I'm not giving over any any more than I have to,

Play from 1:22:16 8:88:88 1:22:16 I think that's a I think that's a solid statement right there. One last question just on your content before we before we sort of uh roll out of here.

Play from 1:22:26 8:88:88 1:22:26 I feel like I'm not comparing you to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but I feel like I might need a map to get back to the beginning to where I go to then what to what branch off to. So, if someone's listening and they want to come consume the entire universe, where do we start? Where do we go with it?

Play from 1:22:41 8:88:88 1:22:41 So, my YouTube probably has uh it broken out the most, but it is designed to be out of order mostly on

Play from 1:22:49 8:88:88 1:22:49 purpose. Got it. Um there's there's lots of little lore nuggets and stuff and pieces that are in there. Any even down to the comments and the descriptions of videos point to other videos. So, it's meant to be a little bit of a a hornets's nest and maze to dig through, but if you wanted to go chronologically is probably the easiest way to do it. Um, and I think I have uh I have a Yeah. So, season 4, this is pretty much in order right now. Um, but if you go to and the crypted dating game is has all of those. Route 47 series is in backwards order. So, if you were to click on that, uh, it it goes all the way back and I would start back there.

1:22:54Where should you start with Route 47?

Play from 1:23:34 8:88:88 1:23:34 There it is. Cool. So, you should like I I would love to see someone like make a map of this like of like where everything is. Do you have one? Do you have like a full visual of the All right. It's sick.

Play from 1:23:44 8:88:88 1:23:44 Yeah. [laughter] Part of the game development that we're doing and actually later today. So, that's an interesting part is with Gorbbo Swimhole, for example, it's a water park, right? And so I'm building out a game with um some really well known developers and I'm physically now mapping out the rides and locations and like figuring out the spatial reality of it which is something totally new for me in AI to do. So we're really like

Play from 1:24:10 8:88:88 1:24:10 sorry go ahead and finish. No just really making like a whole brand new world out of nothing. I'm building a new reality essentially. Are are you using AI to like check for contradictions in your story because it's become so large like when you're doing these things?

Play from 1:24:23 8:88:88 1:24:23 Sometimes. Yeah. Okay. Sometimes I'll take a script and I'll run it through the Bible and I'll say where are any inconsistencies and and more than that like is there a string that I can come back to and expand on.

Play from 1:24:35 8:88:88 1:24:35 So I do I do use it for that. But I write all my scripts by hand. Um I'm Yeah, it's a lot of work. [laughter]

1:24:37How can AI check story consistency?

Play from 1:24:44 8:88:88 1:24:44 Sick, dude. Sick, man. I mean like I I just think like that's such a unique thing with the Route 47. How long you've been doing, how deep you've gone, how wide you've gone, the the interesting characters in between there, the locations, and then how that's sort of mapped out in different distribution and and surfaces even like with the game and the videos. Like, it's really cool stuff. It's really unique stuff, and it's it's well done, dude. So, it's all connected. Everything on the page, whether it says Route 47 or not, it's the lore is all connected.

Play from 1:25:15 8:88:88 1:25:15 So awesome. I'm like even more intrigued now to go sort of like there's some nice way I do little in music videos and stuff. There's little pieces of like the lore in there. But yeah, who do we who do we shout out this week for subscribers? I mean, are we

Play from 1:25:31 8:88:88 1:25:31 data brokers? I thought I heard I don't think we've done data brokers. If you know a guy that looks like Reggie, maybe local data broker Reggie, you know, used car salesman. Um maybe a

Play from 1:25:42 8:88:88 1:25:42 good one. Maybe like a pool technician. Um, you know, something like that. That's a good one. Late night workers. Late night workers. Uh, we've probably said bartenders. Maybe we haven't said like, you know, club dormen. Maybe some bouncers. Yeah,

Play from 1:25:57 8:88:88 1:25:57 there we go. Maybe some bottle service waitresses, things like that. Shout out to the barbacks, man. Barack barbacks.

Play from 1:26:03 8:88:88 1:26:03 That's right. Unsung ripping. I always look at the barbacks and I'm like because they can't serve like the bar will be busy. It's like, can you just like make the drink one time? You know what I mean? Like, can you

Play from 1:26:14 8:88:88 1:26:14 Not their job. No, no, no. Job, dude. Ice, broken glass, in the back. Dude, you get a you get a good bar back and it's like it's the the best thing you've ever had in your life. It's as my back to my bartending days, when you get a good one, you just like you don't know what to do without them, right? When when they're gone, you're like, I'm naked. just so we're shouting that one out because everyone black if you're not familiar what we do at the end here if everyone's been listening for an hour and a half you just got to do one thing like something tell somebody comment subscribe I don't know but you know tell your local part that's a great one man that was an awesome episode let's wrap it up black light thanks for joining us man and uh thank you guys for for listening and uh we'll catch you back next week we got another guest and uh have a great weekend

Play from 1:26:59 8:88:88 1:26:59 see Yeah.