Ep. 27: Midjourney From Dall E 2 creative freedom Julie Wieland

0:00:00Full conversation

Play from 0:00:00 8:88:88 0:00:00 what's up everybody Welcome to Midjourney Fast Hours podcast we're back we're back with another Legend This Time we've got Julie joining us we've got Rory here of course and myself and uh we're excited because we've got an awesome conversation lined up and we're really really excited to have Julie here because Julie I don't know if you know this but like you feel like one of those like Twitter ogs with AI image generation like just senen your stuff for a long long time uh you've been playing with the tools for a long long time just like us and I think we're going to we're going to probably have a lot of fun going through kind of like what we've learned with that process along the way and then also some of the fun stuff that's coming so having said that why don't you give everybody an introduction of yourself and um just kind of tell everybody what you've been

Play from 0:00:45 8:88:88 0:00:45 up to specifically with with AI sure sure well thanks for having me hi I'm Julie I am an aart director graphic designer turned somewhat visual artist with AI not thanks to AI but with AI I would say yeah dabbling in all kinds of uh AI tools at the moment uh started with images turned uh AI videos and having a ton of fun with it everything kind of changed in the past year two years since starting it um and taking it one day at a time honestly what what do you think has changed the most for you like just from like a professional standpoint because Rory and I like our our lives have

Play from 0:01:31 8:88:88 0:01:31 changed a lot because of this stuff I would imagine it's the same for you it sounds like it like what was that experience like and what what actually happened you know uh when this I would say when this Tech really started becoming usable and and had more utility uh in the business World well I mean I am was mainly graphic designer and it's always was like very much like okay well here's the stock images uh that's that's what you got like that's what it is I mean you could go out and and take your photos and take your films and do whatever but I mean that's timec consuming um people Brands clients they don't want to spend money it's all very fast and as quick as possible and then

Play from 0:02:19 8:88:88 0:02:19 with do 2 in August 22 Yeah was it 22 yeah I wish I was just kind of like okay well let's see what it can do and then I was like well cool a dark in space that's exciting we've never seen that that would have taken me a long time to to photoshop it right like I was like well but wait I mean this is pretty cool if if it it can do stuff we can imagine like they can do stuff we actually know and from there on I was just like completely hooked I was like okay well this is this is awesome because just creating mood boards for clients takes ages like like it it literally takes a good 3 to 4 days if not longer to browse Pinterest to browse

Play from 0:03:06 8:88:88 0:03:06 Google to browse wherever and to really crunch that time down to maybe half a day was super exciting for me personally I was like okay well this is awesome this can save me a ton of time in my in my job but then from there I was like okay now I'm hooked and then the tools got better and better and I was like okay well this is very cinematic I love it I I I wish I could go out and and take photos in that style and I used to when I was 15 1617 because I had the time and I don't know just like yeah mainly the time it all comes down to time I would say I was like well this is amazing I I would love to share that with whoever and honestly that was a lot of

Play from 0:03:54 8:88:88 0:03:54 hate in on Instagram on Tik Tok so I was kind of like well let's see Twitter I wasn't acted there um and it worked out I mean there was a huge community building up and that was real quick I I'm just I just want to hit on a few things you just said number one one of the initial reasons that I got into it too was mood boards because that was miserable that whole experience and then even the post prod I don't think a lot of people talk about I'm a former designer I'm probably not even at your level a selftaught by you know forced into it early on but I you know like it force is always good yeah I was forced into it because we didn't have a designer in our company and they were like oh you're creative do it okay but um there was like even the postprocessing in mood boards to like

Play from 0:04:40 8:88:88 0:04:40 get it to even look aesthetically you know sort of symmetrical in the same way but the the comment about the hate on Instagram Tik Tok and then Twitter being normal like that I think it's like this I tell everyone this they think it's the weirdest thing where I'm like Twitter's like the nicest place that I post content I don't know what it is I don't I get zero hate on Twitter everyone seems like this is awesome let's keep pushing this let's collaborate how is that like did you find Twitter to be the most sort of the best Avenue for the AI stuff and like what you were doing and trying to like get the message across oh 100% okay the the community there was quickly formed and also very supporting from day one I mean obviously there there are also some haters and and

Play from 0:05:26 8:88:88 0:05:26 that's totally fine but not to the extent that it was on Instagram and Tik Tok um for that matter I was I was going to say like I think before I I started posting more regularly on Twitter same with you Rory right like um we were both more Spectators like we were we were on the platform we just weren't posting um and it was similar in the sense that with LinkedIn um that was where we posted a lot of our content early on too it's just like there wasn't as much hate as I thought there might be you know but I I could you could tie that back to the fact that people's professional T you know roles are tied back there the company that they work for are tied back there so maybe that's the reason why I think it is fascinating right like that

Play from 0:06:11 8:88:88 0:06:11 that community on X was yeah there wasn't a lot of hate um where sometimes when you get into other spaces like sports or you know it gets it gets ugly quick so definitely not politics though it's there's no hate when it comes to politics on on Twitter but it's what's interesting about with that I feel like Twitter has like a little counterculture vibe to it you know and maybe AI is a little bit that's a that's a good way to put it that's a good way bro feels like we were you know as former designers photographers whatever it did feel a little bit like ooh am I cheating like when it started you know like um I'm not cheating but also people weren't thinking about it the wrong way I'm sure Julie I'm not going to put words in your mouth but I'm sure you saw it in the same fashion like when you're working in Photoshop you're doing this stuff with layers right and it's not never like

Play from 0:06:58 8:88:88 0:06:58 here's one image and like that's it like let me just like change some of the the lighting settings or like the saturation you're doing a lot of things and then it was like once you realized you could generate each one of those ingredients and put them together so like that's when I saw like the the light in the people that were hating on me on LinkedIn mostly graphic designers of the time and I was like you can do this yourself it's not One-Stop solution you can go and be a graphic designer with the ingredients you know so it's uh it's interesting to but like early on on Twitter was there like this was there like was there like any hate from a specific Community or was it mostly just like people who didn't understand what was going on oh it's a specific community and it's mostly

Play from 0:07:46 8:88:88 0:07:46 like Deviant Art kind of people who draw Sonic the Hedgehog like and and I I thought it was like well that's hypocritical isn't it I mean you you give me the hate for being being like or using like it's just copy paste they say and I'm like you're drawing Sonic the Hedgehog and and the same thing yeah I I mean I guess technically I didn't draw it and it didn't took me as like as much time but then again I am not the one posting Spider-Man and and I don't know who whoever like it it's I usually don't post content that is like obviously copy paste of something so I was like how where does it even come from it was so

Play from 0:08:31 8:88:88 0:08:31 it was so misunderstood right away right like CU because to your point even even those people you could take that all the way down to like an elementary level of tracing something yeah I mean how do you learn how to draw something like you you draw it off so you're tracing it right like is that cheating now like is going into illustrator and you know straightening edges or curving edges exactly the way is that cheating right like so it to me it just kind of came across as like you're just uninformed and do I want to spend the mental energy trying to inform you or not sometimes I do sometimes I I really don't so yeah I should have done better at that cuz I was I was more along the lines of like the eternal optimist I'm like do you guys see how insane this is

Play from 0:09:16 8:88:88 0:09:16 you know like this is crazy like even removing backgrounds like that kind of stuff in Photoshop when I was like when someone had like hair flowing in the wind and they were like oh we need the background cropped out I'm like please God kill me you know like that is it's going to take me two days to go through every little point and whatever now it's like you know no one complains that you can Auto remove a background it's like that's AI like you know so I I I just didn't understand why people were so frustrated with the fact that it could just generate things I'm like you can generate textures too you can generate gradients instead of looking for that on stock sites but you guys probably Drew you might have handled that a little bit better than me I was kind of just like I was kind of like the person that was like come on like why not no I think like I was I was I was doing that part of the time too you know

Play from 0:10:03 8:88:88 0:10:03 and then it just like people would get to asking questions where it's like you know like is this the best use of my time trying to educate somebody that maybe isn't open-minded in the first place like what am I doing here I don't need to be you know quote unquote you know the you know educator or you know like I I'm not responsible for everybody else's learning you know what I mean so it's kind of like just like the internet like older people are just like oh internet that's going away and I see it the same way with AI now like it's going to be integrated everywhere and then people will just not understand because they were just too stubborn or too afraid I don't know like whatever the reason to get into it and then at some point they're just like well now

Play from 0:10:48 8:88:88 0:10:48 it's too late or or it's not but now you have to make up five years which you could have had from the beginning and that's kind of where I'm like well I don't want to educate people anymore in in that sort of way because we're all adults so Rory Rory brings this up too which is a great point it's it's the the fact that like when you jump in early you know each incremental Improvement or change becomes easier and more palatable to to execute on versus starting you know now on something like Midjourney to me would be like oh man like yeah you know because you know Midjourney specifically I would say isn't really built for a beginner in mind and I and I

Play from 0:11:35 8:88:88 0:11:35 I don't mind that at all actually like I I love the fact that you have to specifically prompt for something cinematic or lighting or Shadows or use something like a style reference it's not all baked in where you can just click something and all of a sudden you've got that applied you know if that makes sense um so it's a little bit more of like that expert tool in my perspective but to be able to start from scratch now and catch up oh man that would just feel so daunting you know at this point yeah it's crazy 100% yeah it's like opening Photoshop for the first time yeah there you go that's how I know you're a designer where do I start that's everywhere and you don't know I mean I don't even know what it all is and I've been using it I don't know 20 years now it's it's crazy

Play from 0:12:21 8:88:88 0:12:21 Photoshop is nuts when you think about it and it's like you could do you could do the same thing you could do 75 different methods with Photoshop to get there but that's also the beauty of it right like there's never just one way and I feel like that's the same in Midjourney like now there's lots of ways to get to your end goal but then again like it's still not just a click of a button AB just as it isn't in Photoshop right like do you have a do you have like a spec do you have like a I don't want to say like a Event Horizon like when you something like Midjourney or Dolly and maybe it's the dog in space but like an image in mind of when it like all was like this is this is it this is I'm I'm totally hooked I can't go back now like I've fully jumped off the cliff do you have any of those I

Play from 0:13:07 8:88:88 0:13:07 think I remember mine but I'm just curious if you if you had that that same sort of situation yeah I mean in doly to it was when I had like a series of like it was very melancholic and an old man uh opening letters and it was very much like probably his his wife died and I was just like damn I can feel that yeah and and a lot of people were always like oh AI has no so like but why do I feel those images like I can feel something yeah now looking back it doesn't look great it was DL too but after all but but at the time that was yeah that was the first time I was like this is this is cool and I have to stay on top of that and then in Midjourney I think it was my grocery store in which

Play from 0:13:56 8:88:88 0:13:56 is said I still have like on Twitter that I pinned and I probably should take something else to be pinned there but I don't know I really love it like the lighting is perfect and it just is like very green tones yeah yeah it's it's definitely there's definitely that I think if if anyone likes these tools you have that moment where you get that one and you're just like what the hell you know that's that shouldn't that shouldn't be possible and then then it's the next 6 hours you're on it trying to recreate like that's out is this version four or 5.2 if uh if you remember like um I think it was feels three feels like five really three no wow really wait I I have to check myself actually because I

Play from 0:14:42 8:88:88 0:14:42 think it's oh yeah yeah v44 yeah wow that's the that's the to me that was the moment was like V4 was like oh yeah yeah exactly that came out in November 22 I think so yeah yeah but if you could do cinematic stuff in V4 that that was an eyeopener I mean I don't think I even tried cinematic stuff in V4 I think it was V5 that I first tried started trying V4 like I think V4 I think I got involved in V4 somewhere in November um but it was more or less like there was no strategy it was just trying to see what it could create how many iterations it would take to get something that I liked uh what kind of things it could do and do well and it was still like that that infancy moment where you're just like holy this

Play from 0:15:28 8:88:88 0:15:28 exists now like I can create like images that I never thought I could create from my desk like that's pretty dope yeah it V4 has a special place in my heart oh 100 the lighting there was so good so harsh I really love that like on his face right there on that left side too even the shadow play there on the on the other grocery store like this one even has a little bit of like a at The Rim lighting up there yeah the rim lighting and you have the front lighting too with the super harsh on the left side of the face like the leading lines that are going you know on the shelves like right to him uh it's like that green and yellow sort of like muted color I I love this is why I loved V4 cuz there was a lot of light play and a lot of line play from a composition standpoint same same thing here with the Shadows like even

Play from 0:16:14 8:88:88 0:16:14 the shadow of the great that was something even if it's not perfect when you looked at that detail of like the shadow of the of the grat from the shopping cart like that's so impressive you know you could see where it was going yeah yeah yeah and that was to me it was like little things like that where I'm like damn okay cuz that's not you know if you try to edit that in try to like Photoshop that in good luck take a but then again this was like when Midjourney still had one by ones so I did actually take those one by ones to Dolly 2 and the out painting basically oh no way yeah that was no 16 by9 oh wow have you ever tried your reture crap lot of work for just posting it on Twitter but

Play from 0:17:01 8:88:88 0:17:01 yeah I mean have you tried to retexture any V4 images with uh with like v6.1 or anything like that I sometimes try to reuse the prompts but it really did change in terms of how much words you need because back then it was very much like okay high definition 4K all of that like yeah throw it in there yeah like throw it in there Ultra realistic please like throw it in is that so from from your background you said you were also into photography was that something that you were like heavily into like amateurish like just something you did for fun like was that was that like a heavy influence on a lot of the things

Play from 0:17:47 8:88:88 0:17:47 you were doing early on or was it more so just like fun uh photography has when I was 15 I think it was the reason why I got into Photoshop and from there kind of also how I got into graphic design because I always told myself okay I love photography so much I actually don't want to have it as a job because I don't want to lose that Joy of being like or taking photos she gets it 100% but then yeah I mean at some point you you you then work as a graphic designer and and then you become a freelancer and there's no time and and then you you're just kind of like okay well I could either make money while working or have fun taking photos and obviously money wins

Play from 0:18:34 8:88:88 0:18:34 sadly um so yeah I haven't taken it seriously as a hobby in Forever uh have you wanted to pick it back up because of the tools kind of yeah especially film photography because I'm like damn that grain and all that kind of nostalgic feeling to it which you can create with AI and and that's what fascinates me time and time again because I rarely do like futuristic stuff I always go back like it's always very melancholic very nostalgic um I don't very me you could tell Julie I mean you you have a very you have a specific style you do it well um and you could tell you know you you know how to

Play from 0:19:21 8:88:88 0:19:21 curate you know you you know how to pick the right images um always comes which is which that's where it's that's where we're at too right because now I'm just thinking about mood boards personalization Rory I don't know about you but like lately with mood boards and and some of this like my prompts are getting smaller um I'm not thinking as hard about them because now that mental energy just goes into could I use a style reference for this is is there style code do I want to retexture this is this you know like a mood board I built and base you know I want to see what this prompt does for five or six different mood boards and how that interprets it like it's just a different place now and you got to think that prompting is going to get easier and easier which I think Midjourney has

Play from 0:20:06 8:88:88 0:20:06 really proved so with that in mind curation and picking the right things and we talked about this a lot too it's like you create 50 images how do you pick the best two you know what are what are you looking for there and I think Julie one of the things that you do well uh especially because it's cinematic and photo realism is you're you're intentionally picking out things that have emotion in the photo that that can be felt it's the facial expressions it's the lighting and the Shadows right it's the maybe even the like even just the mouth right is somebody smiling or do they have like a a frown are they screaming like all those things I think are opportunities that a lot of people that aren't designers aren't photographers still could really polish

Play from 0:20:52 8:88:88 0:20:52 up to make their images stand out we talk about that a lot because if you don't prompt for those things you're just getting that candid look you're just getting the symmetry which me and Rory just just blast all the time but like you're getting that thing that just looks like everybody else right yeah it's model face is what I like to call it where it's just you know everything is just it's just a blank face cuz you're not supposed to be focused on it right you're supposed to be focused on the clothes but I I did when I was scrolling through a lot of your stuff I was like oh there's a very similar sort of look to what I appreciate I do like a like a higher contrast of dark and lighter tones I do like you know more of a complex composition something like this where we have stuff in the foreground midr background like a lot of detail a lot of sort of like cracked

Play from 0:21:39 8:88:88 0:21:39 textures or more so you know not just like totally smooth and Polished like this one is right up my look at that not from it that's that's an actual oh is it say but then again I mean I'm I'm constantly inspired by obviously right like I I love these type of trailers and and very Indie alternative movies that yeah is that your is that main source of inspiration are you a film fan I mean there was a time when I had more time on my hands to actually watch movies but yeah I would say so especially yeah thinking about like a good 10 15 years ago there were some really good movies now it's all very polished but I I love the the more

Play from 0:22:25 8:88:88 0:22:25 non-polished uh movies as well we're just we're just talking about that before you got on because we were Rory dropped a uh 60 SEC what is it 60 seconds Gone in 60 seconds with Nicholas Cage you know and it's like one of those good bad movies that exists and it's like we're they don't make the movies anymore and you know I I remember there actually being an interview I think it was like Matt Damon I think it was when he was on hot ones and he was like do you know why they don't make those movies anymore because DVD sales no longer matter and that was like a whole other back sort of like Revenue stream that a lot of these uh you know actors and actresses and you know they could rely on that income now it's dried up and now they've almost gone to just the things that are proven right all the

Play from 0:23:11 8:88:88 0:23:11 sequels to movies that we've seen like 20 years ago you know it's just like all that stuff so that's interesting but I do have the appreciation for stuff that is different that is unique that's why I love B movies I am a self-proclaimed maybe bovie fan because I just love that real gritty amateur aesthetic like I I find it to be awesome in Midjourney that you can sort of create that that look where it's unpolished it doesn't look like it's totally Hollywood it's kind of like messy you know like the actors are not they look like real people like not like Hollywood actors and it's it's to me like I I just love stuff like that I used to I used to be a big fan of like was not IFC there was

Play from 0:23:57 8:88:88 0:23:57 another there was a TV channel back in the day that had like all these random movies on you I think it was IFC wasn't it was it there like I never heard of any of them half the time it was like the lines and the and like the uh dialogue was so basic and like hilarious that I just laugh you know like this is so cheesy and I love it as you can tell by some of my minia Max stuff drew that I do that that aesthetic is it works so well with Mini Max that like vintage or I know I think Minx is the best at it yeah currently really is yeah yeah maybe that's a good question for you Julie give us your pulse check on like some of the the video tools that are out there some of the other photo

Play from 0:24:44 8:88:88 0:24:44 tools that are out there like what are you really liking um obviously I think like across the board there's going to be some consolidation at some point there's just so many tools out there and even just thinking about the video process now you know to to go through that you have to use like five or six tools to get to an ed product right it's like I'm going to use you know an llm for helping with the ideation or the name or maybe even part of the script I'm going to use a photo tool like a mid-journey then I'm going to take that into the video tool maybe I try multiple video tools clip those things together using a tool like cap cut right like I it's just sort of a little bit of a laborious you know and sometimes painful process but like what are your observations I guess across those mediums what are you really liking at the moment and what are you looking

Play from 0:25:30 8:88:88 0:25:30 forward to yeah um there's different tools for different occasions I always feel like so Midjourney in terms of like image image tools Midjourney always has like a style for everything especially now with style references there if you do somewhat of a curation and and you save some uh from the people posting them on you can really have like a book with all the Styles you could possibly need at some point um maybe there's already like too much where you're just like do I need that many probably enough so yeah for images of cinematic stuff for personal and and more like trailer work

Play from 0:26:17 8:88:88 0:26:17 definitely Midjourney and then it depends if it's more photographic I tend to go to Halo and Runway gen free um if it's more like illustration stuff I tend to go with Luma interesting and yeah yeah like more like 3D or special effect stuff that's more like Pika you like Luma for illustration that's a that's a that's an interesting one that's the first time I've heard that sort of uh yeah yeah yeah yeah I haven't tried that yeah me either yeah I did like one video uh that was a bit more like yeah illustrative stuff and it worked super well with Luma where everything else it's like like Runway

Play from 0:27:02 8:88:88 0:27:02 sometimes did morph to style which was kind of annoying but and and Halo it works but it's not as good as Luma um so yeah I tend to really pick my tools by the style it has yeah um but yeah in terms of images I also use let's sayi a ton because I can really fine-tune my uh the characters uh or objects which is Heavenly and in Midjourney character consistency is okayish but not perfect and that's when lets really does come in and and gives you the consistency you really need um I think for images that's probably the two I used the most and now

Play from 0:27:48 8:88:88 0:27:48 there's frames will you tell us more about lets because I know you've been involved there I think I've I've just been there maybe once or twice I don't I haven't played with it um like what what are the yeah tell us a little bit more about what you find it to be very very strong with well it's it's super strong with everything you need for consistency honestly it it also has a good cinematic sty um and you can create your own Styles so if you really I mean there wasn't always like style reference or the mood board stuff in Midjourney and if you really wanted to stay close to that style then let's say I was perfect to get that consistency um and yeah I I work with

Play from 0:28:33 8:88:88 0:28:33 neon Internet it's say there somewhere uh and they created let's sayi and it's kind of funny because it came from a place of well we're from Luxembourg I'm from Luxembourg the boys are from Luxembourg and when you try to prompt or get a prompt output and Midjourney that has to resemble somewhat of Luxembourg it can't do it like there's no way you can get luxembourgish food or the city itself like there's no there's no stuff from it and so they were like okay well let's take it up for us to really have our own kind of kind of style in there to see our products uh

Play from 0:29:20 8:88:88 0:29:20 our food our locations um and yeah that's kind of how I was born but it obviously had greater strength and in terms of being or having your models trained in style objects uh characters you tried you tried lets it all I've tried it for products which it it works fairly well at um I haven't really tried it for characters I've done it for products since I was doing for marketing materials things like that but yeah can you here's a random question because I haven't used it in a while can you apply character and style in the same image is that from a from a train model perspective yeah okay so now that becomes that's why you know Midjourney they've been they've been if there was ever a question that got asked more times than is Midjourney going to ever fix consistent characters I mean that

Play from 0:30:06 8:88:88 0:30:06 might be number one but this is this was a a very this was the first sort of model training platform that I was like this is easy not not hard not easy but like somewhat manageable without having to go you know do everything locally or be like super tech efficient or go on like civid Ai and do this kind of stuff so this was the first one I think that made it fairly easy to do that um or palatable for the non non like Tech person yeah but that's perfect because like don't get me started I'm running all of that locally like I I don't want to engineer it I I just want to use it give me the best possible outputs and I mean that's fine I can upload five images somewhere but

Play from 0:30:52 8:88:88 0:30:52 don't don't let me do all of that stuff on my own like I don't I don't have the brain capacity to do that it's too much it's a lot yeah it's a lot you you become an engineer as well as a designer as well that's not what I want to be at all are you are you guys familiar with this visual electric yes I've I've worked with some people who who use this a lot no wait so this is this is what I think of too when I think of lets like I I I don't know let's very well but like this this also is sort of like a very easy to learn I think high quality I mean I don't have a paid plan or anything but there's good images created on here I've set up a free plan where I've generated image before it's pretty good um looks good

Play from 0:31:37 8:88:88 0:31:37 I've never heard of them are they fairly newish or I don't think they're that new like they've been they've been around for a while but somehow like it's just no one no one really talks about them um but they they've got like really good the the UI is great right reminds me of recr yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah the other one that that's been interesting which I think Midjourney if if they had put more thought into I don't know have you tried have you tried Patchwork on Midjourney Julie or no the the World building tool no yeah very weird it was I think it was a very odd launch for them they didn't do it World building feels like a like a big old reach that a big reach yeah yeah but LTX has done

Play from 0:32:23 8:88:88 0:32:23 some just like from a ux experience have you ever used that tool I don't think so all right it's interesting because it's like if there was ever like the the I don't want to say the dumbest down version but the most water down version to create a story like storyboard like it's a basically a storyboarding tool but essentially like you create the character first and then like it becomes a preset and LTX LTX yeah okay and then like it's like oh add character one into this image add character 2 into this image without having to like do all the text prompting and things like that or even the model training it's just like here create character one create character too then put it in the scene same thing with like the setting and the aesthetic it becomes very like if you're using this stuff for previs and not like trying to go and do you know cinematic

Play from 0:33:09 8:88:88 0:33:09 work that's going to be like a film festival if you just want to make a storyboard for like a client just like here's a visualization of what it could look like you I don't see why this wouldn't be a tool that you could do use easily um I just found that they've made it they've made it simpler in in the fact that you know we'd probably go and self flog ourselves for 3 hours to get the right images on all the different platforms cuz we like that but kind of kind of like that kind of like it so let's go back to Let's I'm curious is this is this like a big part of your mix or just something that you're doing for mostly characters or or like specific styles that you're trying to fine tune I mostly use it for all the client stuff that I work on okay because it is really like it saves me so much time when

Play from 0:33:54 8:88:88 0:33:54 working on that kind of stuff um because it is very specific right like in M Journey there is still a lot of guessing or like the surprise effect off which I love for my personal work but when working for clients and Brands you can't always rely on Midjourney maybe a statically but not in terms of how your prompt always is formed and that's where let's say I really is my main go-to I have a question for you cuz we we just touched on this uh what was it two episodes Gil Rory where we were talking about like hey a client's given us you know a project or brief yeah maybe it's something we've never prompted for

Play from 0:34:40 8:88:88 0:34:40 before how do you you know go from zero to one and then ultimately like execute on it Julie for you you've got this brief maybe it's something you never created before how do you go about doing that I think I've tested a lot usually I can sort of make it work but also if they approach me it usually goes into a direction that I've already have been working on so that's maybe where I'm kind of Lucky but I would say like I I it totally depends like I always make very very clear to clients and brands that just because it's AI not everything is possible some very specific stuff still is hard to achieve and if it's

Play from 0:35:27 8:88:88 0:35:27 easier to to get that stuff while you go out and photograph it and you have like I don't know it just takes you 2 hours to get that shot like why would I try to get a location to work in AI if you could just go there and photograph it like right that's I try to make really like expectation management from the beginning but what I still use quite frequently is the describe function in Discord with Mitch Journey really usually if they do have like hey this is kind of what I'm thinking of I still use describe because then it gives me a hint of hey that's the direction maybe try this um I mean you could just use as

Play from 0:36:13 8:88:88 0:36:13 much chat probably but I think the Discord function in Midjourney is so underrated I absolutely love it now with did you say Discord for that sorry I didn't mean to interrupt but Discord you're not using the website describe can you I haven't found it yet yeah oh yeah it's not the same it's different it's different it's notes work I haven't different tested it at all so you could just go here drop something in Click anything you want right so let's just do let me find like a cinematic uh like maybe like this right um so you can just click this button right here little it's a i

Play from 0:36:59 8:88:88 0:36:59 yeah it's kind of yeah it's not very obvious but this is the new I've never seen that before this is like the new one right so like instead of the four options and then if you don't like the four options you can reroll it they they basically just give you these clickable token phrases right where it's just like okay I like that and that and that right and so it just adds it right in okay um that's too I think where you're going with that is also you might not know or or or you don't want to spend the mental energy trying to translate how you might prompt for every single thing from scratch it's the idea that like oh okay like Midjourney likes this language when it looks at this imagery I'm going to get there faster if I go ahead and inject something like this

Play from 0:37:45 8:88:88 0:37:45 versus trying to come up with exactly what I'm seeing in my head yeah you know and hoping Midjourney interprets it the same way yeah especially for styles that aren't as common like photographic Styles it's pretty easy like I have my prompt structure that I use pretty much all the time um that works but yeah if it's like a specific style then it's obviously a bit harder to get there right away and that's why I used Des scribe but apparently there's an easier way now damn that's pretty F that's pretty cool yeah but why I mean I I don't really get why they would I mean probably nobody uses it or less people use it I used to love to scribe for like

Play from 0:38:30 8:88:88 0:38:30 for just like even on the you know just let me take this and some random image like how would how would Midjourney described this like they have it they also have it now in in the editor in a different way where if you go into editor and then like you hit suggest prompt it'll just yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's true like that one that that has been good that that has been good that better yeah than what you get but I I found that that one actually gives me some really interesting takes on stuff too where I'm like hm all right that's cool the other thing they did with the describe function was they they used to add I don't know if they do it anymore was they used to when they had an artist's name in there that was tagged like in the style of whoever they used to link out to that artist's page or that artist's Wikipedia or something like that yeah I don't know if they

Play from 0:39:15 8:88:88 0:39:15 still do that but I thought that was like when they were trying to like sort of guys don't hate us so much it's yeah I guess fine do you still use Discord no just for describe function which I apparent don't have to like I'm struggling just to remember how to use this right now in here let me see okay here we go yeah also did double clicking for like using either a link or an image annoys the crap out of me so I'm actually happy if I don't have to do it anymore does it still work does it still look the same for those of you that are listening that haven't used this this was like man I remember when they dropped that and remember the shorten part of it and then you also had the like if you Dove even further into shorten it would tell you like the

Play from 0:40:01 8:88:88 0:40:01 weight of individual words and tokens that was pretty cool which was BS by the way I used to I used to run it multiple times to see if it would say the same prompt and it would come up different every time and I was like okay so this doesn't work but you know that was weights were something I don't know I never really got to wear one it's with weights and everything but shorten never seemed to work for me it always was like well if I put all these details in the prompt it still looks better than when I trimmed it down to like four tokens it was like I don't know still think think I like my the way I did it better um there's the only thing that I find to be so great on on Discord was the was the uh custom parameter sets and like the custom option sets and also now going

Play from 0:40:48 8:88:88 0:40:48 back and finding all my personalization codes didn't even know that existed until now where you just do list personalization and I was like that's where all of them are which you know I feel like an idiot are you using here's a question cuz I've gotten this a few times now in client work if you're if you're ever doing things on Midjourney are you using are you utilizing personalization for this stuff are you are you building specific profiles for specific clients have you gone that deep yet or is that something that uh hasn't hasn't sort of proliferated yet sometimes yeah okay but yeah it's a not a ton like there's not like 100 clients I would have done that to like maybe I tried once or twice um but yeah I I mean it I definitely would are you using M boards in the same way for that or no oh

Play from 0:41:35 8:88:88 0:41:35 yeah yeah usually yeah cuz I have a problem with mine mine my personalization code is so I've ranked images and I think it just reads too much it's so gritty and like tra tra a new one so I did I trained a soft one and it was just like I know David has said on multiple times just like rank everything I'm like I'm not doing that I'm only ranking images that that are going to help me here so the soft one is like very very soft like I'm only doing like 3D like super super minimalist stuff and now when I apply that it helps with you know some of this stuff cuz I can't everything else looks like it's out of like a like a grunge movie you know like it's super super textured super dark super contrasty I'm

Play from 0:42:21 8:88:88 0:42:21 like I can't have this on on everything but it's a it's kind of been a new way to go about it I think I think I think it took your survey questions identified you as somebody that is dangerous ined that yeah injected that into your code movies give him the give him the horror setting 100% but I still don't understand how the ranking of those images like it it works pretty well for my sty but I never get images that are in myself so I don't actually understand it okay I feel I feel like this is the last front like we need we need a office hours just on this um like were you were either of you guys on the last one because I got a little bit closer to that um there were there

Play from 0:43:09 8:88:88 0:43:09 were a bunch of people asking questions I asked a question it was about personalization it was about first of all like when you go through and you rank images versus just liking them from the Explorer page are those treated equally right because I was wondering that because obviously you can find images that are more associated to any of our preferences or styles that way versus ranking A or B which most of the time it's not they're not great images or images that we would necessarily go for he did confirm that those are different they're treated differently and not as heavily as the A and B ranking which I had a feeling about but that is confirmed the other part is the question around yeah should we be skipping like a bunch and just focusing on images that we like he

Play from 0:43:56 8:88:88 0:43:56 seemed to like really double down on the fact that like no you should skipping tells the like skipping doesn't tell them anything like meaning it doesn't tell them hey we don't like these images or hey these images are too close and we don't want to rank one it only is just down to those two images and I don't know what you know those things are but it's just really just between the A and B is it my my guess is is are they looking at like camera angles are they looking at like the flatness of the color and vibrancy of the color like I I do notice some of that and I'm thinking that it's more or less along those lines but they've never said anything to confirm that but if you're going to go as far into personalization which I think is a major differentiator for a

Play from 0:44:42 8:88:88 0:44:42 Midjourney I think they got to do a better job of educating the users on how to get the most out of it you know at the same time especially with now the fact that you can create multiple profiles right yeah have they ever though have they ever educated us or have we done all that for them you know yeah I I think they just drop these tools and just say like whatever happens happens you guys figure it out um like personalization for example do yeah we do you're welcome you're welcome M Journey for for that stuff because the personalization I am the antithesis of what David says I rank nothing because I go through I'm like I don't like this I don't like this I don't like this I don't like this I don't like this like 10 images later maybe I'll like something cuz I'm not going to like

Play from 0:45:27 8:88:88 0:45:27 something that looks like a stock photo of a fruit I'm like I don't want any of my images to look like that you know just like I don't I don't want that polluting what I do cuz it's just I then I have then I have one that is I rank everything then I have one personalization code now where I rank everything where it's like yes no even if I hate everything and that stuff comes out good like it doesn't come out great like my personalization codes I like them when I use them they work and then like the software profile for example that I have where I only rank soft like soft textures and soft looking photos that works really well when I use it now so I mean I think there is like a you can strategize around it I don't think they they just want the data I I personally feel like that's how they're going to train their their aesthetic model for seven that's how they've been collecting it it's like rank all of it

Play from 0:46:13 8:88:88 0:46:13 yeah okay now we have all the personal yeah let us do it we'll just take the biggest data sets and sort of apply going forward but that's I I I never really if you can't tell I'm on my Soap Box about this but it's I never understood that like let me just select these and I don't know how they even choose them like how does some of these I know we've done this before where it's like send this to send this to rank or whatever on the on the image like you can you know submit this for for ranking oh but some of the images Drew you want to pull want to show that one too how to how to like submit your images to be ranked or submit for homepage or whatever well okay so you you might actually have to do that because I don't get that option anymore I I don't NE it's gone really yeah you

Play from 0:47:01 8:88:88 0:47:01 showed me that and now it's gone cuz you know sometimes you you know what we're talking about with that yeah yeah yeah but I I never knew that you could actually it was like here oh look I do have it now submit to pair rankings three left I I don't know they've never educated on that like why is that for just pair rankings and what's the value in me doing that or is that also to possibly get on the explore page I I I just don't know what that what that does but but I mean I I work in stealth mode at all times I do I doo I don't even know if it would come up anywhere right probably not you guys are I mean I probably would have to make it public

Play from 0:47:47 8:88:88 0:47:47 but I don't know there's it's interesting well there's [name] um it's interesting to uh to see cuz like the the ranked pairs you'd think they would go a little bit further than where they go aesthetically like it's never to me it's never like mindblowing maybe that's the point you know like I'm not sitting here like oh my God that image of the deer is out of this world it's like yeah you know the illustration of a deer in at night like the last five times I've pulled up this pair ranking it wants me to rank this pair really really bad I I I refuse I refuse I'm just skipping it every time and it's going to come up next time and want me to do the same thing like this one on the right like what let CL part like why am I like why is that supposed to be the aesthetic like you want the photo or you want what

Play from 0:48:33 8:88:88 0:48:33 is it taking away from that I I just feel like we could get a little bit of information obviously you don't have to give away the secret sauce but just you know like can I make a more informed decision because personalization is such a big thing now I mean it's it's basically what you know they're betting on it's the differentiator between all this so now like are any of us prompting anything that either isn't personalization mood board or has a style refence friends on it like I don't know like it's been a long time for me they'll do sometimes do you yeah I would I still I still like my text prompting I still like to just go down that rabbit hole to all right well you guys are weirdos but Drew Drew drops the Emoji of his skull in there and gets like something that'll go on the cover of you know the Journey's magazine right that's that's I

Play from 0:49:19 8:88:88 0:49:19 me to be fair emojis are like crazy cool underused definitely it's it's fun do you do you do do you still run like random stuff like that just like to see what you'll get oh random yeah that's still my favorite that's the I say this on every podcast so everyone who's listening is probably like bro shut the hell up you say it every time there's no other tool that can take an emoji and turn it into something awesome like the creative level is just not there it's this is where it differentiates itself cuz we've seen stuff we've gone through stuff on here that or the math equations math equation yeah that one specific let me see if I can find that like those were people were going nuts with those

Play from 0:50:04 8:88:88 0:50:04 uh yeah like this one yeah that's fun just so you put that you could put that into anything else you ain't getting anything back like this that that you know we were talking about that last it's the magic of the Midjourney stuff which again like probably has more use in the personal stuff but it's still amazing yeah the surprise effect of it is pretty cool therapeutic yeah definitely a little therapeutic you know you need a little Midjourney little Midjourney therapy session get in there let me I used to just scroll Tik Tok Instagram endlessly now I'm just like I'm in Midjourney like find me there just dabbling around what what do you want to see from Midjourney so 2025 Julie specifically what's your what's your

Play from 0:50:50 8:88:88 0:50:50 like ask I always say that but character consistency honestly like real character consistency see that is like uncanny like it has to be two to dot every time the same I know a lot of people say 3D um I get it but I don't know if I would be the target audience to use it I saw Korea um come out with something today yesterday yeah that's pretty cool I mean it's cool when I saw it I was like well maybe 3D is cool to have um and I get it and it makes sense um what about from your perspect like before you finish that question I'm curious with 3D do you think about it in terms of because you've got this photographer mindset too

Play from 0:51:36 8:88:88 0:51:36 you've got a great image you just wish you could pan to the left maybe 15 degrees you know and get that like really super unique angle yeah I got a B more like a top view or a lower angle that would be cool to have not going to lie like that's PR cool I usually just I'm like okay well I don't have it it's the same as if I would have taken a stock image if if it's not there in another angle that's life like can't use it won't use it we'll find something else um but yeah of course if it's if it would be possible to curate that far that's obviously pretty cool imagine if you could like instead the angle too but also then like switch lens or like the sort of like if you're you're in there

Play from 0:52:24 8:88:88 0:52:24 and it's sort of you know you have maybe let's just call it like a like super direct sort of like 85 mm but you want to go super wide so it just like it like expands the image outward that way to give you more like broader context on the sides things like that that'd be a really to me that'd be very very fun like if you can just kind of go in there and morph and play like that it is Photoshop then it's just in real time you know with less uh less sort of need to be super super creative with the tool but this K stuff I played around with this yesterday I had a great time I was like is awesome I could spend hours on that yeah cuz it's it's easy I mean like it's not it's not crazy hard you have to create a good 3D object which is you know number one probably something that I was you know you don't have to be on

Play from 0:53:11 8:88:88 0:53:11 when you're generating like an image with I they they were just pasting images in there I was you know generating inside the Crea workspace and was like you know give me a BMW or whatever where is where's this one at where because I haven't played with it yet generate then go to uh on generate go to real real yep and then yeah so there's a lot of variables that play you know you got to have the text prompt which is basically affecting the the right side of the image and then you have the left side which is the workspace where you can add shapes pictures whatnot there's also you can change the background to it you you stay in compose you can also do Real Time video on this with screen record or uh camera which I saw someone doing which I'm probably going to do later

Play from 0:53:56 8:88:88 0:53:56 it's like this guy was just like holding stuff up and watching it generate on the other side oh there it is yeah it's uh it's cool man I love this tool like I never I never like take anything from it I just play like yeah you know what I mean yeah that's true it it's more of a game gameification of than AR use it yeah but I do like Korea for a lot of reasons like just outside of having everything in one space which is nice having the you know they have easy training you know uh it's not expensive either you know the price is very palatable yeah yeah for having everything yeah yeah upscale or video access to everything I tell all the beginners too like if people are like trying to use this for for work or like

Play from 0:54:42 8:88:88 0:54:42 want to test things I'm like just try Crea because you can do just you have everything there you have to buy six tools like us it's a good point are you Julie are you in any of the uh any of the Creator programs I am thankfully I'm so like I I never take it for granted to be honest uh which which ones do you in Runway Halo Pika I think that's it obviously I mean that's it's not directly like a creative program but yeah Runway has a to me Runway has just a really solid structure for it where seems like they have a plan it seems like they like you know I like I like Mini Max I feel like it's just kind of like whatever like you're in it like maybe you'll get get the info maybe

Play from 0:55:27 8:88:88 0:55:27 you'll get the news maybe you won't but uh Runway they feel pretty like they have the they have the sort of meetups they have you know they're pretty communicative oh and Luma Luma I have too Luma how are they how are they with that one very good like Luma Luma communicates okay yeah they're super well organized like the emails the updates it's pretty good yeah I I would say Runway and Luma are the best at keeping you up to date as a Creator and involving you too yes if anyone doesn't know this by the way if you're looking for if you spend a lot of time on these platforms and you generate a lot of stuff you can look most of these tools have Creator programs so for anyone

Play from 0:56:13 8:88:88 0:56:13 that's listening that doesn't know this like you can get into something you know you can apply for runways you can apply for Lumas you can apply for Minx for cing for whatever most of the time it's it's free access to the tool that's what it is and you just have to you know be good about posting and you know putting tagging them and doing that it's not necessarily overbearing but it's a good way to you know if you have more than 50 followers on any platform you probably have you know if you have zero I don't know if they're going to give you anything but you know it's a good way to look up prove yourself a little bit yeah you have to prove yourself a little bit or at least have some sort of value to them to give more more than just a pulse yeah yeah but that that's just a sidebar because I think these things just started popping up there wasn't a lot of them a year ago um maybe there was like Runway there was a few others I don't

Play from 0:56:59 8:88:88 0:56:59 know if Luna had one a year ago but Journey obviously year ago do we want to go down do we want to go down that path again Rory like I feel like we talk about it a lot but it's always fun to hear like other people's interpretations why does Midjourney not Embrace any sort of Creator program Insider Circle referral program you know like there's there's nothing thing Julie does that surprise you in any way I think they just know that they don't need it right like people would still rape about them like you you don't have to be like in a circle to be a fan of them and then everybody pays for it and probably everybody still will like I

Play from 0:57:47 8:88:88 0:57:47 don't know I I think they just like I think they really stick to the bootstrapped kind of feeling and they're just like we're doing our thing we're fine we're good if you Rave about it that's cool thanks for being here but also hey we we're just a company having fun I think David is just like he just loves what he does and he doesn't need other people to also love what he's doing like he would still he he would still do the same thing even if just 10 people would use it like he would still be at the same mindset I'd say so so Julie so what you're saying is that they know that they'll have a couple guys

Play from 0:58:33 8:88:88 0:58:33 dedicate at least an hour or two a week to recording a podcast about them without any sort of Kickback or any mention or any sort of like caring that we dedicate our entire week to them I I think it would be great like for example you know I I would love them I would love to see them do stuff like this you know to provide that like Insight level outside of just the office hours that feels more personal to people yes like I I think Julie makes a great point right like it is obvious to me that David loves loves what he does so much that part of it he's just going to do no matter what right and then the other other part right is that whole VC funded not VC funded thing which

Play from 0:59:18 8:88:88 0:59:18 obviously affects decision- making and how you're going to do some of that stuff too but man I would love to like I want you know somebody from Midjourney it doesn't even have to be David just like tell us what's going on behind the scenes there tell us what people are like working there tell us what some of the conversations are like like um but I think but I I could see it happening like at some point just having a meet up with like the biggest creators or the people who have the most Generations done like I don't know 50 to 100 people just invited to San Francisco and that's it that that's going to happen once and never again and then then you have your creative program once in a lifetime thing and then that's it they can totally do mid

Play from 1:00:04 8:88:88 1:00:04 Journey con or something like that you'd have everyone people would just go to have fun you don't even have to like David doesn't even have to be like I feel like he's a little bit like uh just from my perspective I don't want to say Hersh but like probably doesn't need to be in the public eye doesn't need like a lot of fanfare attention doesn't need to do big launches like and that's cool and I like that you know he does like there are there is a community this though like that's the only this is probably one of the only ones that has like a very distinct feel where there's like die hards and like this is it you know and people just use it for fun they don't even have to do it for business or anything else just like I'll generate on it every day so you know there is opportunities um you know if you can hear [name] she's very upset with uh you know you you didn't invite her on yeah you didn't invite her on today she's uh

Play from 1:00:50 8:88:88 1:00:50 having a having a very rough day but you know it is it is what it is but I think it's like if someone said that there was going to be a Midjourney Meetup anything in your city I'd probably go I mean I'm not one of those people I would I would go I would probably play I would probably pay for the plane ticket to go wherever it's at yeah I mean just just because it's been such a big part of the last three or four years I mean God man I mean just so much has changed um Julie I mean I know you got a little bit into it I'm sure there's a lot more there but like you know Rory and I like we both we both left full-time jobs at that point in time and kind of went all in on this thing um you know it was just we we saw the opportunity it presented in the

Play from 1:01:35 8:88:88 1:01:35 workspace and how that could change workflows and provide cost and time efficiency also the fact let's talk about the fact that you no longer had to make these creative compromises that you might have had to in the past like yeah certain things in your imagination that you just were never going to be able to find a photo of or create a photo of without it taking a you know insane amount of time right and do something unique all those things really kind of unlock themselves and I think we're going to think back to you know this kind of Time Of Our Lives probably the next 10 20 years like I mean this is for me it's just been such a inflection point of my career Vibe with that 100% was that was that did I get too deep I don't know I was just in my feels on it 100% agree like

Play from 1:02:21 8:88:88 1:02:21 same back to Midjourney deep hours there we go yeah there it ISS it's it's just so I hadn't had that feeling that I had with mid Jour I'm going to be you know if we're going deep here I hadn't had it until mood boards came back I was like damn I'm back in here's a thousand Generations in one day you like there's days when you go that way and there's days when I'm like you try one thing you're like maybe not today maybe today's not my creative day and then there's days where I'm like I'll just sit there I'll start at like 7 or 8:00 at night and I'm like oh I have this idea and then before notice 10 11:00 and I'm still just hitting it's like addictive you know they know that oh 100% addiction it's it's not healthy

Play from 1:03:07 8:88:88 1:03:07 sometimes like you said like sometimes you really reach those thousand 2,000 Generations a day and you're like oh God I should touch some grass at something but hey here we are question for you this is a Midjourney specific question almost like a rapid fire in that sense what are your feelings on on the style codes do you like them do you do you actually utilize them or do you mine them just for social I mean like the I've always been curious to for everyone who's been utilizing them I use them okay I also don't use them like sometimes they give me a new idea inspiration for something but I don't rely on them I think I truly think it would be wrong to just rely on them

Play from 1:03:54 8:88:88 1:03:54 on just having like the style reference codes but yeah I mean I totally sometimes just prom like movie still uh stf random and go from there like hey show me something entertain me yeah put like a little R20 in there as well like there we go that parameter that parameter blows people's minds for some reason cuz a lot of people don't know it the art I didn't know it until a few months ago I was refreshing refreshing yeah because ref random and then R2 oh jackpot that is great yep it's a nice feeling especially now with with it being on the the relax hours are like basically free

Play from 1:04:40 8:88:88 1:04:40 it's like you know all right cool R40 what's Roll by the way by the way did you guys know that you can now use permutations in relax mode you could never do that before no what permutations no with the brackets yeah with the brackets yeah true you had to be you had to be in fast yeah I really use them though do do you use them often all time every single props we mostly on parameters aspect ratios things like that but it's it's an addiction too it is an addiction it's a bad addiction yeah yeah I run it with a lot of my just use like one aspect ratio though yeah which one yeah seven by three okay you like cinematic yeah yeah

Play from 1:05:27 8:88:88 1:05:27 going double wide like that what do you think about the difference between 73 219 oo let's get really let's get really nerdy same thing I'm actually I feel like I feel like they they give different result I mean I'm just we're Chang it I mean you can't use 21 by9 anymore they automatically change it to they default it back oh did they really common denominator I just ran one the other day Okay I didn't look at that they they do it common denominator interesting that was like as a graphic designer when they said there was no more there was no more aspect ratios that were structured and I was like wait so I can just type in the the pixel dimensions that I need when it was like oh 79 by 48 and I was like wait this

Play from 1:06:13 8:88:88 1:06:13 works this is the coolest thing ever I still think I can you do that on any other platform like the whatever aspect ratio you want I don't think so I don't think I don't think so no I think it's if you used one then you st to I wish you could use decimals in the aspect ratio though because to that point of like the 73 actually it's really like a 2.3 something one is the aspect ratio it's I don't know I'm not going to get too Nerdy with it but like I would like to actually use that you know what I mean and I wonder how that would actually interpret um the whole decimal thing too kind of is crazy like we I think you were the first one to tell me way back in the day I think about the the decimal point in

Play from 1:06:58 8:88:88 1:06:58 the in the image waiting oh yeah but did you know you could do that with like Styles sty styze and then also like chaos and stuff too like wild cuz that was that was part of the nerd discussion that I was trying to figure out if I used every single parameter how many combinations there were like for every value yeah this was back before like SF and stuff and I was like you could probably have like a couple billion possibilities and then I looked it up can you do like can I do Point like decimal points and I was like all right can do you know 26.1 can it do 26.1 11111 and it did that I was like oh it's infinite there's no end it's impossible to get there so yeah that I thought that would be a good Tweet back like an hour you know an hour ago a year ago and you know that that I just gave up CU I was like gave up on the M

Play from 1:07:46 8:88:88 1:07:46 stupid you know just trying to justify I think at that time people were just like Dolly 3 puts out better quality than Midjourney I'm like yeah I like I don't know about that what are you generating in Midjourney if you say that Dy thre right right yeah yeah hon it's not even in a mean way but what are you generating because there's no way there's no way default just typing uh man in a park enter damn it it sucks guys what what what what are your thoughts on this both of you like are they going to are they going to make an update to Dolly now cuz I mean you got you got Sora you would think that that's there's something connected there um or

Play from 1:08:31 8:88:88 1:08:31 at least you've got a head start if nothing else right of like I mean are they going to drop something with that I I would have thought if they would have done it though it probably would have come during that 12 Days of Christmas thing yeah I could see it happening but also not really I also think that they thought they would have been so clever with Sora when they first announced it and we're like look at us best outter And Then There came Halo and cling andols as well out of nowhere doing it just as good and Sora kind of were like okay right well I guess it's nice but also in Sora I think I couldn't upload people right you have to be on the $200 a month plan for that

Play from 1:09:18 8:88:88 1:09:18 happening I unfortunately did that just just to get just to go full full bore into testing but have you played have you played around with it a lot or you kind of just like start and be like n i mean I tried a little bit when I was in LA uh in December but now I'm back in Germany and I can't use it so oh you guys can't still can't have oh that's right that's right okay that's uh much to be hon what else don't you have access to right now uh VO2 but also I don't know if if it's still on a weight list kind of thing or if it's yeah I mean we don't yeah we don't have it neither of us have it yeah we're on I think it's mainly Sora like there's a fewt things that also don't work in the EU but what about like Claude like from a llm standpoint Claude

Play from 1:10:05 8:88:88 1:10:05 like anthropic um good question I think Claude was not possible to use but actually let me check if it is available now I always forget about how certain things you guys can't access yeah it looks like it should be usable hey Rory Gemini to wasn't available for a while Rory and Julie I have a question for you both maybe you need a second to answer that's okay give me give me a hot take like a legit hot take with either AI image gen or AI video gen it could be specific to a tool or it could be just like a general idea like something that people seem to think but absolutely isn't true

Play from 1:10:51 8:88:88 1:10:51 like give me give me like a just a hot take that comes to mind I'll go go I don't know how anyone's going to compete with with Google and ve not because it's not because it's a good tool but because of the data that they have I just don't I don't see how people can keep up with that like it's really hard I mean Runway to me has the best chance because the Partnerships that they've built and the way they've been able to curate data sets and sort of do this in a very interesting way I'm sure the Chinese models have a little bit different way of going about it in terms of acquiring data sets but I just don't know how you can compete with the amount of content that Google has on YouTube like it just that images whatever it can scrape the entire internet and we'll never know and I that's just that's my hot take is I just I'm I'm

Play from 1:11:38 8:88:88 1:11:38 understandably confused as to how anyone can do it over the long run and compete with them but you know you've seen players like Midjourney come out of nowhere and have the best tool without really having you know much of that they don't have Google's backend database of anything so that's uh that's my hot one one you got one you're just not thinking of it I know you got one I think I had like one hot take that Sora was actually trained on gaming stuff and not actually video stuff because it was very it found very gamified that you know I thought it had like a real engine kind of background instead of I don't know trained on videos like it didn't felt like actual video stuff and I think

Play from 1:12:26 8:88:88 1:12:26 that's still my heart take but I don't know I didn't find any evidence or just like other people weren't really thinking about it so I was like why am I so maybe I was that reminds me of like the video that comes to mind and why I'm shaking my head when you say that is that one that's like somebody walking in the city at dark Tokyo you know yeah yeah it felt like that felt very video gamees you know but also the cars how drive it it feels very much like I don't know it's the high angle perspective that they they tend to default to that looks like you're in a driving video game like that's what it does but also another hot take on this Sora worst product release of 2024 oh God by far I I had a jul

Play from 1:13:13 8:88:88 1:13:13 early on you mean you don't you don't like the 9month waiting period I had a I had a this I had like a rant for about 25 minutes on one of these earlier podcasts that we did when they released it and then it was just like here's the 10 creators that are going to get to post stuff and then here's the the platform that's just going to post stuff and you're not going to see it for 8 months but we'll just keep teasing you I'm like well if you're going to tease us for eight months it better be awesome and if it doesn't and people waited that long and then you're going to charge $200 and then it's really hard to use like I thought some of the sore content I was posting early on would just go massive because everyone was so amped about it but everyone got that $200 price tag in their head and they're like that's stupid I'm not paying that and then the wait times to get on the credit system sucks it's a really hard

Play from 1:13:59 8:88:88 1:13:59 platform to use if you're unless if you don't know what you're doing and I'm just like there it is you got you like sort of like took your medicine on that one because you screwed it up should have not done it that way oh it's going to interfere with the election yeah if anyone can freaking prompt it to do anything you can't use faces anyway that was like their excuse I might interfere with the election it's like well you can't use human faces so how is that going to interfere with it you know like I there's my there's my rant and take again sorry open AI you're probably listening but Google I like yeah maybe chat gbt I still love you my friend my friend my robot friend don't hate me yeah dude that guy loves you he does we have great conversations it's great at being a computer yeah you know yeah exactly data

Play from 1:14:45 8:88:88 1:14:45 analytics things like that it's awesome have you tried using it have you tried using it visually like in your work like assess this image graphically what what could make it more compelling I mean but but then again it uses do free doesn't it or how how no like you could like so you could just like copy and uh paste an image in there and just say hey look um assess this image for me I'm I'm interested in like your thoughts on how I can make this better uh from a storytelling perspective or compositionally or um it yeah visual heat like I know I have it that could be that could be really sometimes use it as a hey here's my four Images I want to post on Twitter

Play from 1:15:32 8:88:88 1:15:32 give me a good title for it and then it sucks I'm like go it give me a name for the style reference code it's bad it's bad in that sense it's you know there's things that it's that I find it to be good like also for for graphic design I used to use it a lot like for dimensions and reformatting and resizing and things like that to sort of fit things in like I want to do you know three images by five images in a grid on this you know type of platform with this much bleed like tell me exactly what this format needs to be I'm like thank you God that used to be the bane of my existence was compiling all that stuff and figuring that out God I was so bad at math for pixels you know what is this at you know 300 DPI vers 72 DPI like you

Play from 1:16:18 8:88:88 1:16:18 might as well just put me out back you know that that was the worst but yeah it now I just have profound conversations with it I just ask it you know it's my co-parent honestly Julie I don't know if you've done this before Oh God when I was when I was very nervous those first couple weeks of you know having the baby I was like like screenshotting baby monitor pictures and being like please tell me what's going on is my baby going to survive the night kind of thing yeah no totally and also to have like one answer instead of Googling it and having a million to browse through and obviously you find a million things and like go to the doctor with your baby like no just tell me am I gonna be fine is he gonna be fine and then CH always like yeah I love that but but but make

Play from 1:17:05 8:88:88 1:17:05 sure you still go to that doctor though yeah it'll say that yeah co-parenting with with AI who would have thought you know that's really I have a whole chat specifically directed at that I was like oh she's got 102.9 12.9 fever in Fahrenheit which is pretty high and I was like do we have to do we have to be concerned it's like no typically over you know over 104 or something I'm like it's close I mean you normally tell me to go to the doctor at that point so maybe it's not that bad but yeah it's has become more of like a personal assistant than it has like a% business tool at this point because every me I guess at some point it's just going to be your AI agent everyone started using yeah and then everything became you know like a

Play from 1:17:51 8:88:88 1:17:51 game changer or uh unlock unlock or supercharge supercharge streamline streamline just got beaten to death streamline was already bad but then it just like compounded the whole delve all that all these words you haven't heard in a long time but delve let's delve into this like who says that like the British in the 1990 or the 1900s like what I don't I yeah yeah exactly but yeah so obviously we've we've gone through a lot today Julie why don't you kind of wrap this up for us tell us where people can find you obviously we we went through your your Twitter your ex which I think you do amazing job of sort of visualizing that process I also pulled up your your website as well

Play from 1:18:37 8:88:88 1:18:37 which I think you've got some interesting things there with looks like you're doing like an nft collection um you've got your all your other social channels on there anything else people should know I don't think so I think on on Twitter X that's where I share most of my AI findings and all of that um sometimes as YouTube I I would love to get back into doing more tutorial stuff um I hope this year will be the year again um and yeah trying to revamp my portfolio my website to be a bit more up to dat um we'll see how that goes but yeah I think on on X is where you can find me and yeah that's all right well

Play from 1:19:23 8:88:88 1:19:23 thank you for coming and hanging out with us being going all over the place with this stuff yeah we're going to have to bring everyone back around at some point we know V7 is going to come out it's going to totally flip you know we're all going to go back down the rabbit hole even if we say we're not we are and then uh you you know what we should do for that Rory we should we should do like a V7 episode where we invite a bunch of people on and we're at right like chat through it together yeah yeah it it'll be like a Midjourney AA meeting it would just like go in I'm through this is my problem I'm excited about this with V7 and you're my sponsor if I get too lost in the sauce bring me back perfect I'm down for that let's do it we'll call it a you know we'll call it a watch party a whatever party a a complaint party whatever the hell is

Play from 1:20:10 8:88:88 1:20:10 going be CHT will come up with the name yeah probably better or not or not yeah supercharged party you know like something stupid like that but as always everyone if you're here still like And subscribe please as I'm obliged to say um you know we're gon to come back next week we got maybe we'll have V7 maybe we won't but you know update update there V7 has been delayed shocking they had a they had a problem with their training data set yeah so they had to start over so now definitely not January definitely February that was confirmed I think it' probably be mid to late February if I had to a guess yeah oh my God what else is new who cares we'll still be here we'll still be here but all right well

Play from 1:20:56 8:88:88 1:20:56 we'll see you guys in the next one thanks for joining us goodbye thanks Julie see you bye