Ep. 23: Early Sora Tester Shares Everything

0:00:00Welcome & Holidays

Play from 0:00:00 8:88:88 0:00:00 What's up everybody Midjourney Fast Hours podcast. We're back. We're back again with another great guest, a legend of a guest, Mihn Do. We're going to have him introduce himself here in a second. Also joined by my lovely, charming, [00:00:15] handsome self. No, I'm just kidding. [00:00:19] What's up, buddy. What's going on guys. This is, uh, we're rolling into the holidays here. [00:00:24] A little bit crazy. I don't know if you guys have had the same sort of like week before the holidays as I have, but everyone [00:00:30] tries to jam. Every single call, every single project in before the holidays. Like they're going to get it done before the new year's anyway. And we all know that as soon as tomorrow hits or Friday in this regard, or sorry, Saturday, it's like, it's over.

Play from 0:00:43 8:88:88 0:00:43 [00:00:42] Like no one's doing anything. [00:00:44] I feel like you're [00:00:45] either on one side or the other. You're either not doing shit the last two weeks or you're doing everything. You know what I mean? It's just like, there's no fucking middle ground there. So, and no one knows what day it is after Christmas anyway. So [00:00:57] no, you know, no one is, we all know. [00:00:59] One [00:01:00] day is like. Nothing, only the savages like probably us will be just, you know, we got to tune in, got to start doing what we're doing, like, those are, those are my favorite days, to be honest, which is when there's like no one working, and I'm like, no weird texts, no, like, you know, random [00:01:15] emails, no, like, can you jump on a call?

Play from 0:01:17 8:88:88 0:01:17 [00:01:16] It's just like, let me just work, and then, you know. You know, let's just sail into the week, you know, into the, into the holiday. And then I'm going to [00:01:22] start, I'm going to start taking all my 30 minute calls down to 15, all my hour calls down to 30. Can [00:01:27] you just send a loom video? Yeah. Can [00:01:30] you do [00:01:30] a, can we do a sync, you know, and then can your email be a slack? [00:01:34] Can your slack just be a thought that never comes to me? Like, let's just, [00:01:37] just save it for when it's going to get done. We all know it's not getting done. Or just like send me a voice note, not a text message, whatever. We'll voice note back and [00:01:45] forth. Like, I like when people do that, it's better. You're pretty good at that.

Play from 0:01:49 8:88:88 0:01:49 [00:01:49] I don't do it a lot. I think you're like, you're like on my short list of people. I'll actually do that with maybe like three people. Yeah, it's the best. [00:01:56] It's the best. But just as we said, we have a special guest today. [00:02:00] Min is a, you know, we're going to let him introduce himself, but we thought it's very timely considering, you know, what's been going on in this space. [00:02:07] Obviously everything is exploding. Min's done a few things on, you know, been a, been a special tester for a few products. I'll let him, I'll let him give the, uh, you know, the intro [00:02:15] here. But, you know, men, with that being said, we'll let you, uh, let you rip through and let everyone know a little bit more about yourself.

0:02:15Meet Minh Do

Play from 0:02:20 8:88:88 0:02:20 [00:02:20] Yeah. And I don't know where to begin, but, uh, I guess I'm a YouTuber. I'm running an agency that does AI work and I run a little kind of creative collective community that does [00:02:30] AI events and weird stuff where we try to experiment in person. So we say AIRL. But yeah, I don't know where to begin with that. [00:02:38] Yeah, those are a few things. It's trademarked [00:02:40] guys. It's trademarked. I already asked [00:02:43] and uh, and [00:02:45] uh, We and I do other my own filmmaking, you know, I love sci fi and so I'm always trying to do at least one video one film every two weeks Damn, now we're now were you doing that before [00:02:56] AI or was that sort of like a new?

Play from 0:03:00 8:88:88 0:03:00 [00:02:59] [00:03:00] Muscle that you started to flex after your AI came out. I [00:03:02] think, I guess I've been writing sci fi on my own. Oh, interesting. Okay. 10 years, but like, I'm not, not like not published or anything, you know, not like I just do it on my own. But it's like a, it's [00:03:13] like a, it's a passion. [00:03:15] It's a hobby. [00:03:15] Yeah. I used to be a journalist and so I write a lot. [00:03:18] And then after that, I just fell in love with sci fi or I've always been loved sci fi, but I started like writing as a thing. I'd get high and, and, um, and want to [00:03:30] write, you know, and just had all these ideas, you know, spill it out whenever you're high on [00:03:34] life. It's a great time to write. That's right.

Play from 0:03:37 8:88:88 0:03:37 [00:03:36] Totally. Yeah. And, uh, and so, yeah, so that's kind of been my thing. So I kind of was like, Whoa, I [00:03:45] can now just do this alone. I can, you know, be my own kind of auteur, you know? which is awesome. [00:03:49] Are you using AI outside of just like the video image generation side of things? Are you using AI to help with writing? [00:03:55] Is that something that you leave to yourself or is that something that you go and like, I'm going to like refine [00:04:00] ideas, play around with concepts, things like that? Yeah, [00:04:01] definitely.

Play from 0:04:02 8:88:88 0:04:02 [00:04:02] Okay. I like to play with [00:04:03] it as an idea, kind of brainstormer. It's so funny though because I rarely get an idea from Chachapiti or Claude that is like usable. [00:04:13] It's more like, I'm like, here, how can I [00:04:15] fix this? And all the ideas suck. And then I'm like, Oh, but that makes me think it's very rare where it actually has a good idea, but it is good at restructuring and I think like it's got react for X structure, like that kind of thing. Like that's not where I'm strong.

Play from 0:04:29 8:88:88 0:04:29 [00:04:28] Yeah. [00:04:29] Yeah. [00:04:30] you can get there. It's just, it's a chore, right? Like, I feel like you have to be super. aggressive, for lack of a better word, with telling, you know, the models, I want unconventional, out of the box, unique, creative [00:04:45] ideas that 99 percent of people haven't thought of before. You know what I mean? [00:04:48] Like you, you have to stay something like that. Otherwise you're just getting this, this generic packaging that you're right. I mean, it's, it's basically unusable.

Play from 0:04:56 8:88:88 0:04:56 [00:04:56] one of the things I've liked to do with it is go like, Get [00:05:00] 5x more extreme, or 5x crazier, or 5x weirder. And that's when it, that's when it starts to give me like, you know, I'm like, open it up, you have no rules. [00:05:08] It's like, okay, wait, let me unleash my, my, you know, billion terabyte brain or whatever the hell it is. [00:05:15] and yeah, something like that. I don't even know the terminology for where it's at right now, but I'm curious, if you, you know, you were writing this stuff before AI has this, has like the AI process now, like with having all the tools, has that sort of like changed from a linear fashion to what you're doing?

Play from 0:05:29 8:88:88 0:05:29 [00:05:29] Cause I feel [00:05:30] now you can like, Create an image, and it's like, oh wait, now I have an idea for a story. Versus it used to be like, let me write a story, and then kind of build it up. Is that sort of, has that changed? Or you still do it like, you know, the same way you've always done it? [00:05:40] Yeah, yeah, that's I think that's like an interesting thought and [00:05:45] thing that absolutely exists right like the Magic or surprise of some of the things that you get back the creativity sometimes and how it can really divert your attention I know at least for me like keeping attention and focus on one singular thing is so difficult but if [00:06:00] I You know, like when I get down this track, if I'm creating these images and I started with this idea, it's, rare that I'll go through 100 percent of that way or that journey on that same idea.

Play from 0:06:10 8:88:88 0:06:10 [00:06:10] I've probably shifted or made a different, you know, micro decision to go a different [00:06:15] direction somewhere along the path. [00:06:17] That's where I think that's a good point. I personally like these tools because I think the creativity that people think disappears when you use them actually expands because you have to be more creative with what's given to you. [00:06:29] It's [00:06:30] like you're given like a hammer or like a, you know, like a nail that's dull sometimes. And like, it won't, it won't like, you know, hammer into the wood. You gotta like kind of fix, you gotta like play with it to get around it. If like you get an image. That doesn't work or a concept that you can't generate that you're going to animate.

Play from 0:06:44 8:88:88 0:06:44 [00:06:44] You have to like, [00:06:45] I have to go in a different direction if I wanted, you know, especially if you're like 75 percent of the way through the story, you're like, Oh damn, I need to figure out where this thing goes now. Um, so I think that's, you know, I've always loved when you get those random outputs, whether it's the image [00:07:00] generator or the video generator. [00:07:01] And then it's like, well, that's. Cool wasn't what I asked for but I'm gonna take this and run with it. [00:07:06] It's like, you got to have a little bit of room, you know, liberty for what, what your expectations are, and I wonder how much of that has to do too with. These [00:07:15] agencies, really, I guess, getting up to speed with, Oh, we need to be paying attention to AI, which has happened a lot in the last year, probably more so in the last six months, at least just in my experience and them thinking, Oh, we're behind.

Play from 0:07:28 8:88:88 0:07:28 [00:07:28] So everybody else [00:07:30] is using AI video. We have to do AI video and them thinking it's farther ahead than maybe it actually is, right? Like, I think that's probably something that's happening a lot right now. I would imagine. [00:07:41] I say that to everyone, just like, go ahead and try. Like, you [00:07:45] know, if this is your first time picking it up, have fun. You'll be, you're gonna give up. Well you won't have fun. Yeah, you won't have fun. You'll just It's like, oh wait, these These people, maybe it is like a normal production process where you do have to generate thousands of [00:08:00] images and then rerun stuff and reshoot stuff many times.

Play from 0:08:03 8:88:88 0:08:03 [00:08:03] How many credits you got? You're a part of the [00:08:05] creator program. Cause if you're not, you probably can't afford to be doing it. You know, like all that, all that stuff. [00:08:11] When did you get like, when did you hit the rabbit hole? Like when was that, when was the rabbit [00:08:15] hole moment? [00:08:15] I was doing a lot of rabbits actually. [00:08:17] Because we were, I was working on a podcast and the podcast branding was like, go down the rabbit hole, up the story tree, that was the kind of the slogan for it. Uh, and [00:08:30] so like, we were trying to do like a logo that was like pixelated. And so like, I was just like, making that on repeat. I, I think, and then Runway was kind of the next one where I was like, Whoa, okay.

Play from 0:08:40 8:88:88 0:08:40 [00:08:40] You know, even though it was like terrible, it was so funny because when Runway came out, [00:08:45] all of my like, anti AI Hollywood friends were like, this is never going to make it. And it's so funny where we are today because it was just, I didn't expect, I thought it was going to take a few years. So like, even I just, I was like, come on guys, you're, you're foolish. [00:08:58] You don't have no idea what's happening. And I [00:09:00] did not expect it to by the end of the year, we'd be able to do all the stuff that, you know, it's just crazy. Like even Genesis just blew my mind like a few days ago, [00:09:09] Yeah, it's crazy that I mean, that one's wild. I mean, it's, it's interesting to like the runway [00:09:15] side of things.

Play from 0:09:16 8:88:88 0:09:16 [00:09:15] I remember I was trying to do my first project with like video and I'm just like, how is there not a thing that just takes an image and then put some motion to it? And I remember Googling it, then it was like, Oh, here's a runway. And I'm like, what does this do? You know? [00:09:30] And it's like, you get like that, like it felt like it was maybe like, Three seconds of a generation back then. [00:09:36] It was just like the person would just go and you were like, Oh shit.

Play from 0:09:41 8:88:88 0:09:41 [00:09:42] Back in my day. [00:09:43] Now. [00:09:45] Yeah. Right. It was like, you get like this, like an eye blink and he'd be like, Whoa, no way. [00:09:54] Chaos, but still you're like, yeah. And then it would just like glitch out. [00:09:58] it's crazy. Cause you know, then you [00:10:00] get the. [00:10:00] You get the other day, you know, watching the, I'm watching Tarantino and Roger Avery on Joe Rogan. And it's just like, the AI conversation comes up, Roger Avery's just like, yeah, use Runway. And it was just like, whoa, name drop, [00:10:15] bang, like, all right, you got really big, you know, sort of like, I don't want to call him like a punk rock director, but it feels like he's kind of always beaten to, you know, walk to the beat of his own drum.

Play from 0:10:24 8:88:88 0:10:24 [00:10:24] And he's just like, yeah, I use it every day, me and my team. And it's just like, wow. All right. You know, it feels like everyone else has been [00:10:30] hidden behind like, we don't use AI. Like, you know, I can't put my name out there and say it, but you know, now you have someone saying it on the biggest platform in the world and like, just throw that out there to everyone. [00:10:40] So I feel like you're probably going to see, have you, have you, have you noticed that? Have you like had a, the friends in [00:10:45] Hollywood, there'd been a shift into more so like, it's so funny [00:10:48] because a year plus, I mean, this, the anti AI conversation is still there. which I totally get and it's like still copyright and fair use, all these things being unresolved.

Play from 0:10:57 8:88:88 0:10:57 [00:10:56] But it was definitely like, there's a small, almost like [00:11:00] punk rock group of tinkers, right. About a year and a half to two years ago. And that group has like slowly grown, but it's still a tight knit group, I would say. But at the same time, like we have been talking to like studios and agencies, big studios, small [00:11:15] studios and agencies more in the last six months, I feel. [00:11:19] But the studios have kind of been like experimenting secretly for a while. And even in conversation with these companies for who've been courting them for a while, but they can't come out and say like, Hey, we were talking to [00:11:30] runway. We're talking, you know, whatever. Um, and then now it's just kind of like, I just wonder when.

Play from 0:11:35 8:88:88 0:11:35 [00:11:35] My prediction is next year, summer, next year, it's going to be, there's going to be just too many tipping points. It's like from Ben Affleck to, you know, James Cameron and [00:11:45] then the here movie with Tom Hanks. It's just like. There's just too many big names that are in AI that it's, it would be weird. It might be a come, come at some point where it's like weird to say that I'm not doing something or not experimenting at some level, you know? [00:11:59] just to be [00:12:00] behind, I mean, It's like just refusing to use Photoshop. Back in, you know, when that was like a thing, it's like, well, you know, everyone else is doing this stuff way more, you know, way more intensely with, with Photoshop. It's not like, you know, totally different skillset.

Play from 0:12:14 8:88:88 0:12:14 [00:12:14] It's just like, they're just [00:12:15] doing it differently. And, I'm interested cause it's, you know, It's been so heated, and it's starting to feel like Coke, when they released that ad, sort of like sobered everyone up to the fact that, yes, it can be done, and it has been done, and they don't care, and the [00:12:30] consumers don't care. [00:12:31] I've noticed a total shift in the wind. Post that commercial, especially with the conversations went from, we can only use this internally to, oh, we can, can we use this for production wise? It's like, yeah, I mean, you just got to be good. It's not, you know, [00:12:45] you just think it's like you said before, it's not push button solution.

Play from 0:12:48 8:88:88 0:12:48 [00:12:48] And then it's like, here, here's my, you know, co commercial. What was that 10, 000 images or something they had to generate to get, you know, a 60 second spot. You know, it's a little bit more, a little bit more in depth than I [00:13:00] think everyone is ready for if they haven't started. [00:13:02] How have you guys in your community, it's like the conversation shifting. [00:13:06] Is it, has it gone from an extreme to another extreme or is it kind of like a slow and steady, [00:13:10] I think like in general, I've been getting more and more. [00:13:15] request. I'm doing a little bit more of the creative work for video. so like it's something that I'm, you know, I'm not really spent a ton of time in, but the requests are pouring in more and more, especially in the last quarter.

Play from 0:13:29 8:88:88 0:13:29 [00:13:29] I would say [00:13:30] for sure. Um, everybody's wanting It seems like something that is great for stills and then also they want an animated portion of it as well Like i've got three clients right now. They're doing that exact thing They want high quality still and then they want to turn it [00:13:45] into some sort of motion or video, you know as a part of the the larger campaign, before that I mean, I really hadn't heard I didn't come across it too often, I guess.

Play from 0:13:55 8:88:88 0:13:55 [00:13:55] it's interesting. Cause like, I feel like it's also industry specific, right? Like when I first started [00:14:00] posting about this stuff on LinkedIn, it was so much cause it was stills. It was like, I was getting so much hate from graphic designers. I rarely even hear a graphic designer say like, you know, this is, [00:14:08] or photographers, photographers, same [00:14:11] thing. [00:14:11] We, we had some of our, some of our like most, [00:14:15] I don't want to like the people that. That listen to us the most and enjoy what we do the most now are photographers like they love Because we talk drew and I talk about it a lot on here, like a different like photography concepts and things like that, because that's what we were doing with the stills.

Play from 0:14:28 8:88:88 0:14:28 [00:14:28] But, the immediate [00:14:30] audience that I was, you know, basically rolling this stuff out to, you know, year and a half ago was media buyers and digital marketers. Cause we play in a different space. It's like less concept, like big idea work and more volume. Like we just need volume from a ad space. [00:14:44] [00:14:45] So it was like this tool came along where we could have volume and we could have a lot of it. And it was, you know, it was, uh, That was sort of, I never got any pushback from the media buyers, things like that. Cause like, this is awesome. We can, we can roll this stuff out, test, you know, repeat scrap stuff.

Play from 0:14:59 8:88:88 0:14:59 [00:14:58] If it doesn't work, plug new [00:15:00] stuff in. Um, but then it was, you know, the bigger agency heads that were like, this is crap. This will never be good. We'll never be able to use this. And it's like, well, here you are. And now, now, now you all want it. Cause it's, you see the future and you see that it has to [00:15:15] be part of the mix. [00:15:15] So it's definitely changed. Like. The one, the one that hasn't changed though, is the, you know, there are our 3d animator friends and our, uh, they still, they still fly on, they still love to just, yeah, they, they hate, [00:15:30] they hate a lot. Um, if there's a, basically if there's ever like a bad comment on LinkedIn or a negative comment.

0:15:30Inside Sora's Alpha

Play from 0:15:36 8:88:88 0:15:36 [00:15:36] That's like super, super vitriolic. It's, you know, you just look right up at the title. Vitriolic. Yeah. You, Oh, you like that one minute. Wow. Pulled [00:15:45] that one from. Is that a, is that a word? I think so. Unbelievable. [00:15:52] Hey, uh, by the way, I got, I got a, like, this has been on my mind for the last five minutes, [00:16:00] bro. [00:16:04] This is Rufio. I've gotten that before. You got Rufio on the show. I've gotten that. Dude, of course you have because that's amazing. Like, are you kidding me?

Play from 0:16:12 8:88:88 0:16:12 [00:16:12] Speaking of that aesthetic now, might have to recreate that [00:16:15] aesthetic in It's your funny journey. It's because it's tinted. [00:16:17] That's, I think that's the thing is because the, yeah, the hair was tinted and then that was like the final thing and then you've got like the, the long hair on top too. [00:16:24] And I was [00:16:24] like, oh, [00:16:26] I should be Rufio for Halloween next year. . I haven't watched that movie. I was tinted for [00:16:30] Halloween, so that's why I haven't watched that movie because I have a white dog. So I was like, you know, that's why I dyed the hair. it's funny this, this conversation 'cause yeah, dude, I know. [00:16:36] I mean, I dig hair because I, because I think a lot about the, well, how does the ideology shift? In the next, you know, few years, like that's what I'm most curious about because with [00:16:45] respect to this, because it's like the anti AI crowd is going to have to relent at some level. Because it's going to be everywhere.

Play from 0:16:52 8:88:88 0:16:52 [00:16:52] And so how do they justify it? Or how did they like account for it? Because they're not wrong in some of their kind of critiques of [00:17:00] like stealing and training models and all that kind of stuff and how does, you know, job loss and that kind of thing. But at the same time, we are going to have to shift just like when the internet came, we, everybody had to change, like, be like, well, look, like, yes. [00:17:13] Okay. Internet's [00:17:15] here. How do you now approach it? Right.

Play from 0:17:18 8:88:88 0:17:18 [00:17:18] I think this will be a nice little signal for some of these grumpy old people that it's time, like they, it's too late, you know, in their career that they don't even want to entertain it. I [00:17:30] think there's, there's definitely going to be a portion of the crowd that's in, in that bucket. [00:17:35] Um, I don't know, though. That's a great question, you know, because when's the last time we've had a shift this big? Is it, is it social media, [00:17:45] social media, you know, and is it like, I think about marketing, um, you know, in terms of traditional marketing and then making its way over to a digital marketing and, you know, like fresh landscape and people trying to figure out what, what is digital marketing?

Play from 0:17:58 8:88:88 0:17:58 [00:17:58] You know, compared to traditional [00:18:00] and how are those things different? And, you know, same thing, I think it's, it's sort of like, uh, it's a newer generation type of opportunity for sure. You know, um, you know, those people that are just getting into the career world have a great opportunity in front of, if, if they're [00:18:15] paying attention. [00:18:16] It's always the mid, it's always like the mid career people that have the worst when something like this happens, right? Cause it's like, you know, at the end you're like, screw it. I'm almost done. The beginning you're like, Oh, I'm on this new tech.

Play from 0:18:26 8:88:88 0:18:26 But the middle it's like, you have to know both, you know, you have to retrain, right? [00:18:29] Like when social media [00:18:30] came around, if you were 35 to 40, you still got, you know, 20 years on the back end of working. You got to figure out social media, but it's not your thing, right? Like I, like, you know, I don't want to learn Instagram when I'm 40, but like you have to, because that's what it was when it came out and now it's like, I feel like it's the same thing. [00:18:44] So [00:18:45] I, I'm also noticing I'm, I'm being a little bit ageist here. I guess, like the people that are the most cynical about it tend to be in that, like that middle, middle career. Group where it's like, you know, I don't want to have to relearn everything [00:19:00] I've already learned and been working on for 15 years.

Play from 0:19:02 8:88:88 0:19:02 [00:19:02] And everyone that's like starting is like, I can just get on these tools. It's really cool. Um, and everyone at the end is like, screw it. I'm done. So it's like, there's, I definitely feel like I feel for those people. Cause I was, I was feeling [00:19:15] that right away when it came out, I was like, I'm in that position. [00:19:19] Where I need to just get in it and figure it out. Cause if not, like this, you can't just see this thing and be like, this is, has no relevancy.

Play from 0:19:27 8:88:88 0:19:27 [00:19:27] You got it. I think it's, it's part, [00:19:30] I think it's a couple of things. It's insecurity. It's it's ego. You know, like you, you have to, um, you have to eliminate ego in a lot of ways to really change perspective and be okay with like these people that have already publicly [00:19:45] shamed AI. [00:19:46] It's going to be even harder for them to pivot because they've publicly put it out there. You know what I mean? Like they've put themselves in that box. And you know, there's that whole psychological, uh, element to it where it's just like, once you kind of go down a certain path, you double [00:20:00] down, you double down, right?

Play from 0:20:01 8:88:88 0:20:01 [00:20:01] Unless you're willing to sacrifice that ego and that insecurity. And I think a lot of people struggle with that. I mean, it's a common thing, right? You have to proactively attack those things and be willing to shift perspective in the first place. Sorry, that's get a little like, [00:20:15] Deep, but like that's the, it's the truth, right? [00:20:18] Like you, you know, you have to be, be willing to evolve perspective just because I think a certain way today. Doesn't mean I have to think that way a week from now, month from now, year from now, which is the same thing [00:20:29] true [00:20:30] with playing with these tools. It's like, no one is a master. It's like, as soon as you get it to hang at one feature, they come out with another one or another, like, I've been learning runway and now I have to learn the Sora and now I have to learn this and each one has its own [00:20:45] personality.

Play from 0:20:45 8:88:88 0:20:45 [00:20:45] Well, you know, [00:20:47] do we want to, do we want to, I feel like this is a good segue. Do we want to go into, maybe we'll start with Midjourney and then we'll make our way over to the AI. We'll circle back to the AI video stuff because I know you've got a lot of, uh, really [00:21:00] interesting stories and experience there as well. [00:21:01] So like Midjourney been a while since I shipped the big update. Been a while. Been a minute. Been like a quarter, [00:21:09] you know? Which is longer. Maybe longer. I think, [00:21:11] what was it? Like editor was the last real big [00:21:15] thing, maybe. And then before that it was like personalization, which was maybe six months ago. I don't know, but either way, it's been a minute.

Play from 0:21:23 8:88:88 0:21:23 [00:21:23] You've got patchwork that's come out. I don't know if you've seen that with, with office hours or played around with it yet. And then you've [00:21:30] got. Mood boards was just dropped as well. Like first reaction, gut reaction. Have you played with these things? What do you think of the potential? Um, is it something you're going to use? [00:21:42] I love Midjourney is still my favorite tool just because [00:21:45] of the instant gratification of generating an image. You still have to wait for a video. So, um, yeah, patchwork I played with for a few days. Um, maybe I've logged like 10 hours into patchwork. I definitely, I definitely [00:22:00] struggle with it a lot. I have to say it's not easy for me to use.

0:21:45The Testing Program

Play from 0:22:04 8:88:88 0:22:04 [00:22:04] Uh, so I, but I, and I'm trying to get a, like, while playing with, I was trying to figure out why did they call this world building, you know? And like, [00:22:15] yeah, [00:22:16] that little surprise they had where, Hey, we're, we're going to launch. Collaborative world building today, you know, I was like, what does that mean? Oh, I'm there, I'm there. [00:22:26] I'm on the call. Yeah, totally. [00:22:29] We, [00:22:30] we got amped about it. And then it was like, this guy went on a, you know, a nice like 30 minute sort of rabbit hole into what?

Play from 0:22:38 8:88:88 0:22:38 [00:22:37] But like, as a Figma user, I mean, I love Figma. So I'm like, I was like, are they trying to get acquired by Figma? [00:22:45] Or like, or, or is it like, A new way to think about it, which I did once I started getting into patchwork a little bit more, I, I started to get it, even though I think there's a lot of bugs, like I can't change the size of things, blah, blah, blah. [00:22:58] But I did like [00:23:00] that. Hey, I've now have like, visually I have my house is here. The landscape is here and it's all visually in one place. And I'm like removing things that I don't like, and then it's like referring to that stylistically. So I'm like preserving style. So [00:23:15] like I, I like the idea behind it.

Play from 0:23:17 8:88:88 0:23:17 [00:23:16] I think it needs like a few more iterations before it gets to where it's actually useful to me. and then mood boards is like awesome. It's like a storyboarding tool. Yeah. Mood boards is, yes. Awesome. Yeah. Agreed. It's better than style reference in a lot of ways. [00:23:30] Or like a evolution of style reference. [00:23:31] I, I, I was curious when I started playing with mover, which I haven't logged as much time. Uh, honestly, but like, would that come into patchwork somehow? Would that come into like, you know, working in a group or the, you know, like using it in a [00:23:45] group chat like they have with the lobby, you know, like, would I be able to use mood board in that setting in a kind of really fun collaborative way?

Play from 0:23:53 8:88:88 0:23:53 [00:23:52] Yeah. And I feel like that's also brand friendly, you know, like playing around with styles and the brand and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, [00:23:59] [00:24:00] definitely. Definitely. Moodboard is, Moodboard is cool. It's probably my favorite update of the year, so far. And it's, it's tight. Which I like. Yeah. It's tight. It works, it works like how you'd expect it to work. [00:24:12] Do you, you [00:24:13] think so? I, like. [00:24:15] Tell me about that. I would love to know. I feel like I'm, I'm okay. Like it's, it's okay. It's okay. So far, tell me, tell me what I'm missing.

Play from 0:24:24 8:88:88 0:24:24 [00:24:23] Well, I think you can go about it a few different ways here. This is just my own thought process around it. One, [00:24:30] you can go super broad and you can bring a bunch of different styles into it and hope that it kind of blends it all together. [00:24:34] Sort of like your personalization style, your global profile, right? Like that's like that one to me is, is good, but there's also like, if you want to get super tight on a concept, like if you have maybe six or seven [00:24:45] SRF images that are like really tight in terms of like conceptual nature. Like they look the same textures, same color scheme, things like that.

Play from 0:24:53 8:88:88 0:24:53 [00:24:52] You can basically build an SRF code so that it's, then you just don't have to type, you don't have to like go through the hoops and jumps of like, [00:25:00] you know, S W's 16 or, you know, like chaos five and like do all the parameters and describe everything. It'd just be like, you know, cat profile code enter, and it just comes out exactly in that style. [00:25:10] I found it that way, but then I've also found like using it. [00:25:15] Like a mood board, as weird as that sounds has been like really good. Like, here's like some, some concept images, textures, colors, like, uh, swatches, things like that. And it's tends to like blend it all together very well. And [00:25:30] that's just my opinion on it.

Play from 0:25:32 8:88:88 0:25:32 [00:25:31] Cause I was doing something super complex with it yesterday just to see if it could do it. And I was like, Whoa, all right. Yeah. Like I wish there was like a, [00:25:39] maybe like a strength component to, to it. Interesting. Like, you know, in terms of like. How [00:25:45] much is applied? And I, you know, like I do, I think they need to, they do need to find it better. [00:25:50] Efficient way to apply style weighting, you know, for the references, you know, because I mean, when you think about it, dude, I just burned so many Fast Hours doing permutations or, [00:26:00] you know, time just running different style weights, you know, with any style reference, style code, style reference, doesn't matter.

Play from 0:26:07 8:88:88 0:26:07 [00:26:07] It's just like, you almost want to find that sweet spot that exists. I feel like, you know, just in playing with mood boards so far, I wish I could control that aspect [00:26:15] of it. [00:26:15] It's interesting because I'm, I'm, I'm treating it as like the different and [name]'s joining. Mihn, if you don't know that my, uh, my seven month old daughter, her name is [name]. [00:26:23] She joins in every podcast. Um, she makes her voice heard, but there's, it's, it's been pretty [00:26:30] cool. Like, you know, To watch this tool that I've wanted for so long, which is just like I want to build this one style, especially if I'm creating like a story, right? And I don't wanna go through all of like the hoops and bounds of like long text prompting.

Play from 0:26:41 8:88:88 0:26:41 [00:26:40] 'cause that's more so of what I'm doing most of the time. I just create the mood board and then like [00:26:45] bang, just generate like . So that to me has been super helpful and that's why I've been loving it so much and like really playing with concepts. How much are you guys [00:26:53] in the explore function? Do you guys spend much time in explorer? You know, when you can see what [00:27:00] other people are doing. Yeah. [00:27:01] Yeah, [00:27:01] yeah, yeah. I've been spending more and more time there lately than I used to. [00:27:05] Oh, [00:27:05] I'm always Like, I'm always there. Because for for me, like, I always I'm curious about The breadth of the tool in general, like what's possible with the tool. Cause I mean, I'll still [00:27:15] see styles. I'm like, Holy shit. Like I've never seen that before. You know what I mean? So I use that as a form of inspiration.

Play from 0:27:22 8:88:88 0:27:22 [00:27:22] I would say like, I also use that. When I'm trying to work backwards from something, if I've got an idea. and I want to take a piece of something, right? Like, [00:27:30] so let's just use that example. I've seen, I see something I've never seen before. I like one aspect of it, maybe two aspects of lighting color, maybe a material, maybe a style, whatever it is. [00:27:40] Now I can, now I can sort of use that as a tool that's going to help me [00:27:45] sort of like get to whatever I'm trying to do. Right. Whether that's for personal or professional work, I use the search functionality a lot too, like, to be honest. So like if I've got client, a client project and they're looking for, let's just call it, there's like people in the scene and it's street style [00:28:00] photography.

Play from 0:28:00 8:88:88 0:28:00 [00:28:00] Like I've got my own stuff. But depending on what the needs are, the scope or the brief, like what the specifics are, maybe there are parts of it that I don't have. So then I'll use search functionality. I'll look to see like, okay, is there something here that feels [00:28:15] like I can take this from zero to one using that? [00:28:18] You know, and then apply that. And then also I think what's super unique about the search function, right. Is that piece, the search within the search, the smart search, [00:28:27] the search within this, you know, [00:28:28] right. Where you click in, [00:28:30] do you know what I'm talking about? Okay.

Play from 0:28:32 8:88:88 0:28:32 [00:28:32] So [00:28:32] let me, let me just, uh, that sounds really deep [00:28:35] little [00:28:35] hidden [00:28:36] trick hitting us with some, Oh yeah, it's, [00:28:38] it's dope. [00:28:39] It's dope. So let's go. All right. So let's go here. Let's jump in here. Okay. So [00:28:45] like, for example, let's just say this, right? So I've got, you know, there's this image, but like, let's actually, let's back up. Let's just like put in horse. Okay. So now what I'm looking for is I'm looking for like a style or a color or something that I'm, that I'm [00:29:00] gravitating towards.

Play from 0:29:01 8:88:88 0:29:01 [00:29:00] So like for the, for this example, let's just go with like this. Okay. So I can click into this. I'm like, okay, cool. So maybe I'll look through this. Is there something in here like token, something like that, that. That stands out that I can use, and [00:29:15] then I'll click into this. So what I'm looking for is like that bridge, because then this is going to give me images connected to that one, more relevant to that one, you know, so, so now I can really utilize this.

Play from 0:29:28 8:88:88 0:29:28 [00:29:27] Yeah. Now I can really utilize this [00:29:30] as like an entire, you know, inspiration, you know, in a, in a sense, like there's also one deeper level to this. I don't do this, uh, that much anymore, but like you could. Like I might be interested, like, does this, does this person create a lot of this stuff, like, or do they have a certain [00:29:45] style that, you know, and then you can go in here and obviously look and see if there's anything else that stands out. [00:29:49] So, I mean, yeah, like to answer your question, long way to way. Absolutely. You know, like that is Explorer is still very, very relevant for my [00:29:59] ask, because [00:30:00] like I do, I'd love to like combine styles. I mean, you just like exponentialized what, how I would even think about it now, but like, and especially in context of mood board.

Play from 0:30:09 8:88:88 0:30:09 [00:30:09] How can I, like, use Mood Board to, like, combine styles for, like, a stream or, you [00:30:15] know, like, whatever I want to achieve. Like, I'm always trying to, like, make a style that maybe is either people haven't seen before or, like, I haven't seen before, you know, or, like, just weird, you know? Yeah. [00:30:27] You're talking to the weird [00:30:27] master here in Rory Flynn [00:30:29] yes, I do [00:30:30] like weird a lot. I actually got a message from Midjourney yesterday when I was trying to do with my style code I had it on like Chaos 80 cause I was trying to, or my uh, my mood board code I had it on Chaos 80 cause I was trying to find something crazy and then I put, dashed it, you know I put weird 500 and [00:30:45] it was like this image might be too graphic it didn't even generate it, it was just like the concept What?

Play from 0:30:50 8:88:88 0:30:50 [00:30:49] Yeah, I was like, what? Never [00:30:51] seen that before. [00:30:53] Have you guys? Have you guys noticed this? Has Midjourney gotten a little darker lately? Has it? Is it just me or is anyone else? I've been getting some [00:31:00] weird stuff. That's you. That's all you. Is [00:31:03] there personalized audio? I don't do anything. [00:31:06] I don't do any horror film. [00:31:07] I don't do, like, any sci fi. I, like, only prompt, like, real stuff. And then it's, like, when I put in something, like, you know, comedy movie that was [00:31:15] never made, and it was, like, some really wack. That's awesome. whoa. This is a little bit, this is a little bit funky Midjourney, don't know where you're going with this.

Play from 0:31:24 8:88:88 0:31:24 [00:31:23] They're [00:31:23] scraping the barrel of training data at this point. [00:31:25] Yeah, I went, I went on, you know, where, I used this prompt the other day, [00:31:30] where it all went wrong, just to see what would come up, and it was, it was gross. I was like, Oh. It's like, what is happening here? But, it's um, I, you know, every once in a while I try to find for, you know, Cause, like with [00:31:45] Minimax, I just, I get obsessed with Minimax and the funky things that it can, that it can animate and like do like weird stuff with and make it, you know, kind of hilarious.

Play from 0:31:53 8:88:88 0:31:53 [00:31:53] And you'll throw, you'll throw some prompt in there like, like that and you'll get something random that Minimax will just take and run with. But, [00:32:00] that's where, yeah, I mean that's where I've gotten most of this like weird stuff lately. I just didn't know if it was me. [00:32:05] What do you, okay, what do you think about this? [00:32:07] I think like mood boards, there's a, there's a lot there. We can dig into that. I think we're going to spend a whole nother episode on that because it, it [00:32:15] deserves a deep dive for Mihn here though. Like I want to, I want to get into the video component and, you know, like, tell us a little bit about, the tools that you're using right now, I also, I think Rory said that [00:32:30] you were part of like the alpha program with Sora, is that correct?

Play from 0:32:34 8:88:88 0:32:34 [00:32:34] Now, you know, tell, tell us about how that happens, right? Like. How did you get invited to that? There was sort of that mystique, right? When everybody was talking about Sora, how like some people had access, but we don't know [00:32:45] who, you know, like shine some light on that whole situation. Were you already posting video stuff? [00:32:49] Did they come find you? Was there a program like break it down for [00:32:52] us? They were just kind of cold emailing and finding people out there who were experimenting and tinkering, just like kind of any other, program. Cause I'm in a [00:33:00] few programs. And I feel like a lot of them, they're just kind of like finding friendly, people out there who are willing to play around and tinker around a lot of the artists.

Play from 0:33:09 8:88:88 0:33:09 [00:33:08] Um, well, cause I've been playing around for like a while. and so maybe I know a bunch of people in the LA SF [00:33:15] art, AI art scenes. And so like, I was kind of a known entity in person. There are a lot of the other artists that I met were like, known for being tinkers in AI, um, or just known to be tinkers in general with digital art. [00:33:29] And so that was kind of my [00:33:30] impression of the 300, 400 people there in the program. everybody's very open. and like definitely some people who are not technical at all. And then some people who are like very technical. So it was kind of an interesting batch. And then we were doing like [00:33:45] weekly calls.

0:33:45Midjourney Updates (Patchwork + Moodboards)

Play from 0:33:46 8:88:88 0:33:46 [00:33:46] We're in like a kind of group together, kind of interacting. Yeah. So of all the programs I've been in, I really liked that one just because of how intimate it was, uh, kind of like a lot of help for any artists, uh, from, you know, across each other and then from the program [00:34:00] itself. So, yeah. [00:34:02] Yeah. Probably felt like, like a pretty massive thing, you know, that was coming. [00:34:06] Right. I mean, because of the hype, I mean, it's open AI, first of all, right. It's like that first company that, you know, really, I guess, [00:34:15] democratized AI for the general public and then, you know. The Kleenex, the Google, right? What's so funny, [00:34:22] because when I first got into the program, which was about maybe three or four months ago, so I'm a later than, you know, folks like Paul Trelo and others, right?

Play from 0:34:30 8:88:88 0:34:30 [00:34:29] [00:34:30] But I was kind of surprised that it was less it was more, sorry, it was more complex. Then I expected it to be, I expected the company that made AI, you know, Kleenex like with [00:34:45] ChatGPT, which is relatively easy to use compared to, I don't know, whatever, but it just made it palatable for a hundred million people to use it. [00:34:52] Right. Which is crazy. So I expected that same company to be like, Hey, we're going to make. Video creation easier. And then when I got into the [00:35:00] product, I was like, Whoa, there's a lot of doubt. It took me a while, frankly, to, to figure it out. Like, and I was in a few of the, you know, the office hours and like interacting with a bunch of other creators and sitting there and then, Oh, like I was just hearing people [00:35:15] talk about storyboard forever.

Play from 0:35:16 8:88:88 0:35:16 [00:35:16] And then I was like, Oh, okay. This is what I can do with storyboard. I can like recut it. I can like talk to, you know, I can like describe what the characters do and obviously very flawed still, but. Like that workflow [00:35:30] took me a minute and then once it hit me, I was like, Oh, I can kind of be creative in a different way with this than all the other ones, other ones that I'm used to, right. [00:35:38] Where I'm just like text prompting, or sometimes I'm not doing anything. I'm just like dropping my Midjourney image in there, you know? Yeah. [00:35:45] Yeah. Yeah. See what happens.

Play from 0:35:47 8:88:88 0:35:47 Yeah. So that's, that's kind of unique. And that, which is funny to me that when I started seeing the Sora comparisons the day of, it was a lot of people who were just like shot by shot comparison. [00:35:56] And I was like, all right, like, you know, you don't know, [00:36:00] what are you talking about? That's a very different thing. You're comparing different things, you know, but at the same time, to be fair, great point. Yes. It's fair that one shotting, maybe Hailuo is very strong or Kling is very strong. That's completely fair.

Play from 0:36:14 8:88:88 0:36:14 [00:36:14] But at the [00:36:15] same time, it's like, there's just some shots you wouldn't get from those that you can get in Sora. You can get like a wave, you know, you can get the camera to move in really unique ways, for example. Mmm. [00:36:25] Definitely. Yeah, I remember like the first day I was doing it, [00:36:30] and I was like, You were, you were very, very good about, you know, being closed lipped on it in our little group chat, and then it was like, okay. [00:36:37] You know, now, now that the cat's out the bag and we're all trying to figure this out.

Play from 0:36:41 8:88:88 0:36:41 You're like, Oh, you know, if you use recut and storyboard, it's going to be way easier. [00:36:44] [00:36:45] It's like, [00:36:45] yeah, it's like, all right, cool. Now wait, now that I'm going down the rabbit hole for this whole day of like figuring out my first, like 30 gens were just terrible. [00:36:53] I didn't even get anything close. And then I was, I started like picking it up a little bit and I'm like, side, side [00:37:00] DME, like, wait, Is this like, you know, is this like, blend and remix? Does this stuff like, really work well, and like, is it cool? You know, whatever. But, it's a whole It's different. I think that's probably why everyone is so upset with it.

Play from 0:37:11 8:88:88 0:37:11 [00:37:10] Upset, like, you know, it's just cause it's not runway where you put an image in type [00:37:15] like, move right, and then press enter. Right, like it's, it's a little bit more complex. Which, to each their own, I think I like the chase of trying to figure it out, cause you can, you see what people can do. I've seen what you've done, I've seen what some other people have done. [00:37:28] It's just like, You gotta, you [00:37:30] gotta go after it a little bit. It's not, it's not handed to you on a silver platter. You have to get wild and weird with it, [00:37:34] and then it, it shows you what you can do. And then you're like, Oh, okay. Which is so funny because I just felt like, uh, for a second there, it was like, yes, [00:37:45] these generations are very clear, but there's two seconds in your generation that are, I've never seen before.

Play from 0:37:51 8:88:88 0:37:51 [00:37:51] And what you could do is like, take that out and do something with that. And it took me a while, like, honestly, the first time I, I'll be very honest, the first two weeks of Sora, I was like, [00:38:00] clicking, I was doing that, and then I just, I just didn't use it. Because I had other projects, and I just don't have time. [00:38:06] And then, when I was taught, I was like, oh, okay, I'm, this is a whole other lane that now people can play with, now people can do. [00:38:15] You know, and now I'm expanding my I don't know, it's all very abstract, but it's like, this is what I feel like I can do, and this is what I can also do over here with Sora, you know, and so these are two different buckets of things that we can do now, you know.

Play from 0:38:27 8:88:88 0:38:27 [00:38:27] But it's like very abstract. Recuts. Definitely a [00:38:30] differentiator. Yeah. Recut having recut in there for, cause we were, Drew and I had like, kind of like talked about this a while back, like, Oh, if they're going to do 60 second generations, what happens if like 30 seconds suck? Yeah. Like when you're just gonna hit send again. [00:38:42] So like the recut feature, like totally makes sense for [00:38:45] that, where you can, if anyone's not familiar with Sora recut, if you have a 10 second video, let's say second three to four is terrible. You can split the clip in half. You know, basically, you know, expand or contract and then generate that piece over again, so you don't have to do the whole video over.

Play from 0:38:59 8:88:88 0:38:59 [00:38:59] You can just do that [00:39:00] little piece, which is a nice, you know, Touch to have that in there and like also the remix to like smooth things over But i'm I want to ask you about the storyboarding because I think a lot of people are very confused with that I was confused when I started on like [00:39:15] how to like actually get that to Get something that's usable because it feels like i've seen a lot of I personally had to go on the explore page to figure it out um, but if you have any like Insight into storyboarding like how that works like what's a good way to get some, you know, clean [00:39:30] shots out of it There aren't jacked I think everyone that's listening would probably appreciate that.

Play from 0:39:34 8:88:88 0:39:34 [00:39:33] That's fair. I guess starting with ReCut being the core way to think about storyboard and then thinking because I still, I think, but Runway came out with a middle [00:39:45] frame, right, uh, yesterday or the day before. And so like now we have one other player that can do three, but of course Sora can do like five, six, seven, 10 images in one generation that you can upload or even video into a storyboard. [00:39:58] But the way that I tend to [00:40:00] use it is. I have a character, let's say, I've been working on this story about this Filipino entrepreneur who develops like a Cube that can like mist so it can water her plants for her and then she becomes like a mogul and so like [00:40:15] like And she like threatens the power structure of the Philippines but

Play from 0:40:21 8:88:88 0:40:21 like it it I was struggling with it for a while because I wanted her to like be holding this floating cube and then for her [00:40:30] to go out and water the plants with it. [00:40:32] And so like one storyboard allows me with characters consistency. I have the character that I generated and her face is the way that her face is. And with what I do is I cut out like one second, two [00:40:45] seconds, and then I type into story, but I click on, you know, that that window and I click on, you know, the fourth second.

Play from 0:40:53 8:88:88 0:40:53 [00:40:53] And I tell it, Oh yeah, you know, watering plants. Now the problem then becomes like, how much are you telling it? Because [00:41:00] I feel like with what I've learned using Hailuo and, um, minimax runway, Luma, all of them is that sometimes saying less is better because you want it to wait the image. But I find that sometimes with using [00:41:15] storyboard, giving more is better. [00:41:16] So like, rather than just having the fourth second, you know, It's watering the plants. I'm also telling it at the second second. I'm telling it, you know, like, uh, the, the, the cube floats upwards and then the third second, I'm [00:41:30] saying the cube floats down and like I'm being really granular and then that I tend to see get a lot better results.

Play from 0:41:36 8:88:88 0:41:36 [00:41:36] It's not perfect, but I get a lot more results from that, [00:41:39] just a quick anecdote. It would be nice if we had the same coherence cross channels. [00:41:45] You know, like it, it seems like that's always like a nut. You got to crack there, you know, jumping tools tool. How's this different from this tool? You know what I mean? [00:41:52] Yeah. I mean, I find Minimax to be like less is more there than, than like runway, you might need a little bit [00:42:00] more. And then sore, you might need a little bit more, um, you know, Kling. I think probably you can go either way on it. I feel like it's the Swiss army knife of all the tools.

Play from 0:42:08 8:88:88 0:42:08 [00:42:08] But the Sora thing is interesting because that's now, now that the other thing that was, was when you were doing the storyboard [00:42:15] to write that I didn't recognize, I would always put like the, if anyone has done this on the storyboard where you have like your image and then you're trying to add something after the image, like it's those little like place cards, right? [00:42:25] I've got so much better success placing that card like a second after [00:42:30] the end of the image. I don't know if that's like a functionality thing because it gives that like breathing room between like to connect things. Creativity, right?

0:42:30Video Tools Evolve

Play from 0:42:37 8:88:88 0:42:37 [00:42:38] Yeah, [00:42:38] yeah, yeah, that's but that's um, you know, so that's interesting when so are you doing like when you're doing [00:42:45] storyboards are you doing like Six or seven cards in a storyboard sometimes. [00:42:49] I'm guessing it probably varies but you can go. Yeah, that's what you're saying [00:42:55] Experimented with like having multiple images like I've created like Midjourney I do [00:43:00] like five created five images of action with the same character in Midjourney And then I'm uploading five images for the five keyframes And then I'm describing the text between each image, right?

Play from 0:43:11 8:88:88 0:43:11 [00:43:11] I'm I'm a text card. So it's like image, like image one, the rabbit [00:43:15] is in New York city image to the rabbit is in Brooklyn. Uh, and then, and then the, the rabbits in Jersey, those are all images. And then I'm text prompting in between each image of how it got to each [00:43:30] place. And that's been, I've done a lot of, I haven't used that many. [00:43:34] Yeah. That's, [00:43:35] I've used, I tried to use like three images as key frames and like I always, you know, I think that was probably trying to do it differently, but again, I wasn't, I wasn't utilizing like the cards [00:43:45] in between. I was trying to like describe the scene as the image and then like have a transition, but that's, that's why I think it's, it's interesting.

Play from 0:43:52 8:88:88 0:43:52 [00:43:52] Yeah. [00:43:52] Curious from both of you guys, how much of this with these tools, AI image gen and AI video gen, is it. [00:44:00] That these companies intentionally leave some of this stuff open to play and experimentation uh in easter eggs almost versus Actually not knowing exactly what the fuck is [00:44:12] going to happen [00:44:13] Where do you think where do you think that's [00:44:15] at? [00:44:15] Like i'm just curious like I I think about that a lot right because Midjourney is the perfect example of that. Here's this feature Here's what it does very literally Then you know you give it 24 48 hours even a week You You know, you've [00:44:30] got 20 different ways that people have sort of uncovered that this could be useful, right?

Play from 0:44:36 8:88:88 0:44:36 [00:44:36] Did they know that it was going to be useful in that way? Or is this all just UGC, they're taking advantage of that? Do they, do they expect there to be a [00:44:45] bunch of ways that they're not thinking about to use it? To happen with each, you know, release that they have. Like I'm just thinking about things like that. [00:44:52] How much of it is unpredictable versus. I [00:44:56] wondered when Genesis came out. I wondered, I was like trying to visualize what all the [00:45:00] video research teams were thinking there. It was probably like the iPhone moment of BlackBerry, you know, like you're like, they're all like, I told you that we should have done 3d stuff.

Play from 0:45:09 8:88:88 0:45:09 [00:45:08] You idiot. Yeah, dude. That's a great point. That's a [00:45:11] great point. Absolutely. That's perfect. Absolutely. [00:45:15] Kind of stuck [00:45:15] with their training data in a way, right? They're like the, to the extent to which, how much training data plus GPUs, plus whatever they have, they. You know, but at the same time, maybe, I mean, Midjourney, I feel like is leaning into the creativity and like the brainstorming as of what [00:45:30] AI could do. [00:45:31] But at the same time, I'm sure like I, every time I see another runway thing, like camera movement to keep middle frame to whatever, I feel like they're trying to head towards precision, you know? Yeah. So, and I wouldn't be surprised if Genesis [00:45:45] or some version of the thought or research behind Genesis shows up in runway and like, you know, three months or something like that, you know?

Play from 0:45:52 8:88:88 0:45:52 [00:45:51] Feel like it's a runway runway has made it the most user friendly to sort of like stay along the track with if you were able to like start a [00:46:00] couple months ago, you can like, Oh, if you learn how to do this, you can just do this and then you can do this and then you can do this because every other week there's something which is great and Midjourney. [00:46:08] Like to your point, drew, it just feels like they, they listened to what the community says they want. They develop it and then they just [00:46:15] like release it into the wild. And it's like, yeah, do whatever you want. And it's like, you know, I don't think they thought of using people using character ref as an object ref, which is what I was doing.

Play from 0:46:26 8:88:88 0:46:26 [00:46:25] Okay. Right. Right. And remember like a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about, [00:46:30] I think we were doing the editor, right. And we were talking about, Hey, look, like, you know, editor is great for swapping or changing things out or removing things when you add things. It's hard. And then we were talking about, well, let's, [00:46:45] let's add the image ref. [00:46:46] Like, let's add an image ref into the editor of the prompt. And sure enough, like that works. Why does that work versus just typing it in? Right? Like how many people know about that? Did Midjourney know that was going to work like that? [00:47:00] Remember we were talking about two with the editor and could you apply a style?

Play from 0:47:03 8:88:88 0:47:03 [00:47:03] Or, you know, like a style reference after you painted stuff out, right? Like, do they know that, you know, do they know that? Or is that just like, holy shit, somebody figured that out. That's cool. [00:47:14] It was, [00:47:15] it was, uh, you know, there's, there's, we're always trying, cause we know what we need sometimes, right? Like we know what we need to [00:47:20] get and maybe they don't, right. [00:47:22] And they're not utilizing it. Maybe the. The number of various formats that other people are, right. It's just sheer volume. [00:47:30] Yeah.

Play from 0:47:31 8:88:88 0:47:31 [00:47:30] Well, so someone, you know, you guys are doing more client work probably at a certain point, like they need something specific, so you have to keep going until you get it. And a lot of times that means you've got to use a lot of different tactics to get there. [00:47:40] Like, you know, if you're just doing it for fun, you could just give up. You know, I got, I got a question. I got [00:47:45] a question [00:47:45] for Mihn, like, Mihn, we talk about this from time to time. I think this is like a really good underpinning of. Like these tools right now and like how to like find the edges and then also like be creative with the application.

Play from 0:47:59 8:88:88 0:47:59 [00:47:59] Do [00:48:00] you feel like you run into like, you, you've got a very specific client brief or something that is in your mind that is very clear that you need to do Sometimes. It doesn't quite work out the way you want. You have to rethink how you're going to get there. have you [00:48:15] noticed that those type of like obstacles along the way have pushed you to be even more creative and better with the tool? [00:48:22] Because maybe you didn't know the initial way to get there, but now you do, or you know, what's, what's possible. Maybe you just can't do [00:48:29] it. [00:48:30] Or like I'm, that, that has actually caused me to remix our Google cross tool more. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Krea editor, Photoshop in painting to get like a specific bottle or like a character to look the way it [00:48:45] has to look like, yeah.

Play from 0:48:47 8:88:88 0:48:47 [00:48:47] I mean, at the end of the day, like, I have to push that as far as I can get it before I go back to the client and be like, look, like this is what I could do. You know, or like, Hey, like you don't run from the problem, you attack it. And [00:49:00] then at the same time, like I always kind of. I kind of look at it two ways. [00:49:03] I'm like, I want to get as precise as I can. And then I want to be as weird as I can, or, you know, or like fantastical as I can so that I, when I come back to them, [00:49:15] I'm like, look, this is what I could do in terms of how precise we get, but this is also what you probably, cause you don't play.

0:49:15Blend vs Everything

Play from 0:49:21 8:88:88 0:49:21 [00:49:21] This is what we can do. You know, like we can have a dragon eating the bottle or, you know, or whatever. [00:49:28] And that's, I think that's to [00:49:30] me where if there's, if there is one differentiator that the other tools can sort of compete with Sora yet is cause they just don't have the functionality is the blend and sort of remix functionality there where blend to me is like the most unique [00:49:45] feature. [00:49:45] It's like a, it's a, just a totally there's like novel. There's no other, there's no other tool that can do that.

Play from 0:49:51 8:88:88 0:49:51 [00:49:50] Yeah. What do you, what do you, what are you getting with it? [00:49:54] it's like playing with concepts that I'd normally couldn't do. Right. Like I did a, I was like, let me play with, I have [00:50:00] this, I have a guy on a dirt bike, right? [00:50:01] He's like riding through the jungle and I have like a really crazy shot of him coming towards me around a curve. So it's like, you know, coming into the frame, like around the curve. And then I have a shot of me following him from the back. I'm like, what happens if I blend those two, you know, so by [00:50:15] blending them.

Play from 0:50:16 8:88:88 0:50:16 [00:50:16] It, like, made this super sharp, like, 90 degree turn with, like, almost like a camera rotation on, like, a gimbal. And I was like, that's sick. But at the same time, when it did that, it had, you know, when it, when it morphed, when they, like, kind of [00:50:30] combined, then it had a rider on the motorcycle facing forwards and then a guy on the motorcycle facing backwards. [00:50:35] And I'm like, well, I mean, cool. But, but then you hit remix and you're just like, all right, you know, just one guy on the bike and then it mimics the motion and bang. And it's like, I can't do that [00:50:45] on other platforms or. You know, like the seem like having the blend curve, which I love on Sora. That's the coolest thing.

Play from 0:50:53 8:88:88 0:50:53 [00:50:53] Cause you can influence either how much is like from one video or the other, or where it transitions, or if you want to like go back and [00:51:00] forth a little bit, which I find to be just an awesome, creative, like piece. Cause then you think about it in terms of like Midjourney, it's almost like image ref with key frames, right? [00:51:10] So you can like influence via key frame and like put them together. Yeah. And that's when [00:51:15] it's like, if I, if you gave me unlimited credits and this stuff generated the speed that Midjourney does, I don't think I'd stop. You know, I think, you know, you might have to send that's true.

Play from 0:51:26 8:88:88 0:51:26 [00:51:25] How you burn through credits. [00:51:27] Cause you're just like, well, it's going to happen. Yeah. [00:51:29] [00:51:30] it's also remix can do some really subtle things, which is nice. Like fixing like out of place artifacts and shit, [00:51:35] which I, I, yeah. It's [00:51:38] easy. That's, that to me is like the best one, cause like the, you know, you'll get something where, Oh, okay, you're coming around a [00:51:45] turn, and then there's just like this weird, you know, building that like, kinda cuts off, and it's like, mm, alright, remove the building at the turn, bang, and then it's gone.

Play from 0:51:52 8:88:88 0:51:52 [00:51:52] And you're like, cool, thank you. Like, I don't have to go, you know, play around with trying to regenerate this random shot. But do [00:52:00] you have, is that where you got, you know, is that where you spent a lot of time in the, in, did they have that feature in the alpha program for [00:52:07] a while? Yeah. When I got on three to four months ago, all of those features were there. [00:52:11] Yeah. Just a little bit. We actually had some drop in [00:52:15] quality of generations at some points. Um, because they were fixing stuff and there was some kind of interesting things in the alpha program because it was like, also, you Sometimes some people were doing weird stuff with it and they had to like, shut it down, you know.

Play from 0:52:29 8:88:88 0:52:29 [00:52:29] Uh, [00:52:30] so it's like, they had to shut it, or like the, and it's so funny that the, what was of, what you could do with content restrictions, was sometimes lower in the alpha program and then became way harder. Because [00:52:45] someone was doing something, you know? And so it was funny that we got all that, everybody was playing with it. [00:52:49] It was like, I don't like content restrictions. Well, it's like, well, like, because they're trying to be good, whatever that means to them, you know, and it makes sense because from what, what I heard of some people doing, I was just [00:53:00] like, yo, okay, that's, that's not cool. Yeah. Well, [00:53:02] what did you hear? I don't know if we can go, I don't know.

Play from 0:53:06 8:88:88 0:53:06 [00:53:06] We can go there, but you know, [00:53:08] There's definitely, I'm sure, I'm sure there's some people that pushed it. I would have been that person probably in the background. No, you [00:53:14] wouldn't have. I [00:53:14] [00:53:15] push things. But it's, it's interesting because the, you know, it was, it was kept under such lock and key. I mean, like, did you have a hard time, like, not telling people that you were using it? [00:53:26] Like, even, you know, I know it was, you probably don't have to try that hard, [00:53:30] but to me, I'd be, I'd find it [00:53:31] hard. It was nice that, because when I came in, I was like, Oh, a few of my friends are here. And so then I was just like, okay. You know, they didn't tell me either. So everybody's very tight lipped aside from the, yeah.

Play from 0:53:41 8:88:88 0:53:41 [00:53:41] Interesting. [00:53:43] Aside from those leaks. What'd you think [00:53:45] about those? By [00:53:45] the way, I just, this is my YouTube. I, I, I was pretty annoyed. And so I was like, I was also annoyed because it was like, uh, and we didn't, we actually didn't know when it was going to release. So. [00:53:57] Is this the, the leaks that we're talking about that happened like a [00:54:00] couple of weeks, but was it like a couple of weeks before? [00:54:01] We didn't know when, we didn't know [00:54:03] when Sora was going to come out until like, you know, very, you know, And so like, when I, I was like, shit, I can't respond to that. You know, I [00:54:15] can't respond to it. So like, number one, I didn't feel like that was reflective of, you know, there's like 304 people in the program.

Play from 0:54:21 8:88:88 0:54:21 [00:54:21] There was like a dozen people who sent the letter. And so like my first, Did those people actually interact with the program? Because this program, in [00:54:30] particular, like, I'm in a lot of programs, I felt, and a lot of them are really good, don't get me wrong, but, I felt that the Sora program was, they were very hands on with the artists. [00:54:39] And they were like, [00:54:40] Oh, yeah. Okay. Interesting. Like, is there anything that you can share about that specifically? Like, [00:54:45] the people were always available. Like, what you mean by hands on?

0:54:30Breaking Storyboard

Play from 0:54:48 8:88:88 0:54:48 [00:54:47] You know, you could, like, message them, and they would respond to you personally. They, there was, like, office hours, so artists were guiding each other on how to use the tool. [00:54:55] They were sharing how they were using the tool. Love that. There were little workshops where [00:55:00] some artists would have like, hey, this is what we've been doing for three months or whatever, using this tool. And they would show the art that they came up with and the mistakes that they made. So that was like really intimate and really cool. [00:55:09] And so like when the letter came in, that was what was most frustrating to me was that it misrepresented [00:55:15] what it at least felt like to me. So I'm biased. Like, it just felt like some other programs, it's just like, Hey, you're in the program here. This is, you get, you get credits and you get alpha access to some features versus where I did feel [00:55:30] like, so maybe because of the pressure around them as OpenAI and,

Play from 0:55:34 8:88:88 0:55:34 you know, a lot of the rumors, maybe they were trying to be more, you know, human about it. [00:55:39] Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I felt like that was disingenuous and then I did feel like they [00:55:45] gave that access for a hot second. Right. To generate number one, that wasn't the real access, literally a hot second. Yeah, that was only to click generations. So I think it was funneled through somebody's account. It wasn't actually API access.[00:56:00] [00:56:00] Right. And all that, like it was a misrepresentation as we know now of what was possible with Sora, right? Like there was no remix blend, recut storyboard. None of that was available in that version. So it was like, I don't know. I don't know. So that was, I definitely [00:56:15] had a lot of feelings about it, but, um, and also I'm biased because I'm pro AI art.

Play from 0:56:20 8:88:88 0:56:20 [00:56:20] Right. And so like, I want people to approach it with my own sense of curiosity and, and, you know, like playing, but you know, you can't expect that from, from [00:56:30] everybody. [00:56:30] this is a question that's coming from my own personal curiosity is like when you had, when you had those first couple of like, wow moments with the tool. [00:56:38] How hard was it not to post that stuff? Like when you, when you see how, when you see how viral everything else went and [00:56:45] you're just like, this would just be so easy, you know, they had it up there. They allowed [00:56:49] you to post if you just asked. And [00:56:51] Oh, really? I thought you couldn't, I thought you couldn't do it at all.

Play from 0:56:54 8:88:88 0:56:54 [00:56:53] I thought that was totally locked out. If you just [00:56:54] asked, they would have approved you. and they basically approved everybody pretty much. But, I [00:57:00] think, but that changed that. So, but to answer your question, that made me want to produce something better. You know what I mean? It's like, I wanted to have a complete short film that showcased it versus, you know, just posting whatever. [00:57:13] So I don't know that, that, that kind of [00:57:15] had the opposite effect on me. Yeah. So I don't know. Other people have experienced.

Play from 0:57:19 8:88:88 0:57:19 [00:57:18] Did you create like a, a Sora only film, like where you just use Sora top to bottom? [00:57:24] And I'm still, I'm still working on a few. but yeah, I did, I did only Sora film. Which turned out [00:57:30] great. [00:57:30] I mean, definitely things that I didn't think I could do with other tools. So, [00:57:34] the thing that I like about it, which I wasn't expecting, cause I'm going to be honest. Like, I just don't see ChatGPT and open AI as like, like I see Midjourney as being creative. Like I just don't, I [00:57:45] never like felt that with ChatGPT.

Play from 0:57:47 8:88:88 0:57:47 [00:57:46] Cause it's, I don't know, maybe the UX is like utilitarian, but this one felt to me like, there's. There's a lot of rabbit, you know, a lot of rabbit holes to chase a lot of like different features to go down and sort of kind of get crazy with and waste [00:58:00] credits on, which is what I like to do the most. Um, and I was surprised, like blend really surprised me where I was like, this is, this is creative. [00:58:09] This has a very creative mindset that. So is storyboard the way that [00:58:15] it was put together. So when you recut, it's like it's conceptually, it's very, it's very well thought out. It's just, I think for some people it's a lot of things and the first like week, you know, it's like a lot of stuff to relearn. but when you're going, when you're going through, This [00:58:30] entire like new process with something like this, is it,

Play from 0:58:35 8:88:88 0:58:35 is it something where you're, where you're looking at the tool and you're, and you're, and you're basically being like, this is going to be, let me reframe this. [00:58:43] There's a really bad way to start this [00:58:45] question. I was trying to figure out the best way to say it. [00:58:48] I'm not going to edit that out. Let's let's leave that in baby. [00:58:52] My, my mind is going like 7, 000 different directions. No, no, I'm just giving you shit. And like, uh, no, for real, because I'm trying to get to the right end point here, which I can't [00:59:00] get to for some reason.

Play from 0:59:02 8:88:88 0:59:02 [00:59:01] It's, uh, it's like, I have this, I have this thing, happens to me, I don't know if it happens to anyone else. When these new tools come out, I obsess over them for like, probably like two weeks. And then like something else drops and I go back to, you know, doing the other tools. But [00:59:15] like, this one was the first one that I felt like I could, I could really lose myself here. [00:59:19] Because the quality of the generation is so insane. Like did that, did that, did you sort of have like that feeling with it? Cause I love the other tools. I love runway, minimax, Kling, [00:59:30] whatever. But I just saw Sora and I'm like that there's just things you cannot do on the other ones. And I, maybe it's just me.

Play from 0:59:37 8:88:88 0:59:37 [00:59:36] Maybe I'm feeling, maybe I'm feeling a little bit special about it, which I feel like a lot of people kind of soured on it, [00:59:41] but no, I, I, I, I feel you. I think. [00:59:45] But that's definitely for me, it's been a balance because like something sort of still can't do or, or I just have time to deal with that. Like it's easier still, maybe because I'm just stuck in the efficiency, majority into X.[01:00:00] [01:00:00] And, and so like, that's still sometimes way faster than Sora, but at the same time, like, I don't know, like the Kingmaker, uh, video where it's got this dude running through, uh, A snowstorm and it looks like, you know, like real [01:00:15] footage, like that, I don't think I can achieve anywhere else. So like, it's, I think there is that balance that is like, almost like I'm deciding at that moment.

Play from 1:00:27 8:88:88 1:00:27 [01:00:27] Whether or not I'm going to go with, go back to [01:00:30] the usual workflows or Sora, and I'm going to push Sora as far as I can and then give up because I just can't get this stupid cube to float up in the air, you know, and I've, I've spent five hours to float and it keeps making it something else. [01:00:45] And yeah, so, but at the same time, like, I guess that's that muscle, right? [01:00:48] Like you're getting, you have to like stop at a certain point, go back, you know, I don't know. Yeah.

Play from 1:00:55 8:88:88 1:00:55 [01:00:54] It's restraint because you, you can, that's the problem with it that I'm finding is that you can keep going. [01:01:00] And then before you know it, you know, you really could have done that on runway in six seconds, but I'm just like, I want you to, you know, see what it would do here. [01:01:07] Get a more interesting camera movement or whatever, which feels more real or visceral. [01:01:13] It's depth to [01:01:15] like, it's, it's, there's a lot of depth in the shots, which I've, which I've noticed, like you see a lot more of this from, you know, Drew, you'd probably appreciate a lot of this stuff, especially like I've been prompting a lot with gimbal style camera.

Play from 1:01:25 8:88:88 1:01:25 [01:01:25] And to me, it's like so realistic and like, you know, you get like the, the handshake of it, [01:01:30] but you get like the drop in the levels, the arcing around and the orbiting, but it also, it has like this depth to it where you can really see like the edges are really tight of, you know, the shadows, the light play. [01:01:41] It's very intricate. So I'm like, you know, stuff like that, I'm like, how do I, [01:01:45] that, those gimbal style shots, that doesn't happen on any other, uh, on any other platform. And I'm not saying it's better or worse than anything, but when you get, when you want that look, it's like, how do I stop? It's so funny because it's pretty bad.

Play from 1:01:58 8:88:88 1:01:58 [01:01:58] I feel like the different programs and [01:02:00] approaches of the companies. Influence their products because they're listening to the users. They're, they're like favorite users differently. And so they're building the features that those users want. Like Midjourney is, I feel like it's a very strong reflection of like a great artist [01:02:15] community giving great feedback and they're responding like, so like, in the, at the same time, I, I wonder what that, how that influences the whole industry in like, we're going to have all these different companies that have different personalities.

Play from 1:02:28 8:88:88 1:02:28 [01:02:29] Some of them aren't going to [01:02:30] make it, frankly, like of the ones that we've all talked about might all consolidate or whatever. And we might lose those personalities or they become part of other larger personalities or AI personalities that we have to interact with creatively. Like, it's weird. [01:02:43] That's a great point. [01:02:44] I [01:02:45] mean, yeah, when's that consolidation going to happen? You know, yeah, next year. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, here's the other thing I was going to ask you before we let you go, man. Cause you got so much great insight on this, on the, on the video side here too. Like have you, have you played around with. [01:03:00] VO two yet?

Play from 1:03:01 8:88:88 1:03:01 [01:03:01] No. Have you played around with that? Is it open Wish, wishful thinking? I'm not on, I, I think there is a link that you can actually, that you can access it. Yeah. I've like people posting stuff, so I, I I think it's still creative programming. [01:03:12] Um, [01:03:12] is it? I went to sign up for [01:03:15] their beta the other day or whatever the hell it is. Okay, I got it Maybe they got a shot. Come on. [01:03:20] Sorry to say it's in the labs [01:03:22] google if you're listening [01:03:24] I've been waiting for Google and Meta and it's funny that kind of like Google drops on the head top of [01:03:30] OpenAI like in their 12 day thing.

Play from 1:03:32 8:88:88 1:03:32 [01:03:32] Like, of course, Google is finally like going to get them back for last year. Yeah, topping on top of them, but like, I've been waiting for Meta. And so Meta is like, I guess, delayed into next year. They showcase like video to video yesterday, but [01:03:45] like, I, I think, The generations that we've seen are awesome. I mean, the fidelity, the precision, and actually it's a great transition from the last, you know, personality conversation, because I feel like, are we going to have this world where there's a competition for precision?

1:03:45Tech Giants Move

Play from 1:03:59 8:88:88 1:03:59 [01:03:59] And then there's a [01:04:00] world of competition for creativity. And like what you're talking about, Rory, like having more, like using blend being a very creative thing that you're responding to versus Google VO two or Hulu or whatever, doing exactly what you want it to do. You know, like [01:04:15] I wonder if that's the world or it's both. [01:04:17] You have to have both, you know, you know, product. [01:04:20] this is where I get like, you know, if you want to get deep here, it's like, I don't understand how, bro, this is what we do on this podcast. Midjourney, deep hours.

Play from 1:04:30 8:88:88 1:04:30 How does [01:04:30] anyone, how does anyone, how does anyone compete with Google for training data. [01:04:35] Like how is anyone going to compete with YouTube? Great point. There's billions of hours of content and they own all of them. [01:04:41] Yeah. Tick tock. [01:04:44] [01:04:45] Yeah. You know, there's such, [01:04:47] that's what should happen. [01:04:48] That's actually not a bad idea. I think Pika and Pika is like showed itself to be this social media platform. [01:04:53] Like that's what it wants to be. Great, smart, good, good niche. Cause it wasn't going to compete with Sora. You know what I mean? Like it wasn't gonna compete with [01:05:00] runway personally, I think, but it's like, that's a good thing. For it to be, but I think it's like, he's very interesting. Like, like again, it gets comes back to who can just build the brain the fastest and it's like, Google, how do you, how do you even compete with that?

Play from 1:05:14 8:88:88 1:05:14 [01:05:13] Data set there. [01:05:15] They're [01:05:15] the deepest bench maybe. [01:05:17] It's interesting. Cause they felt like they've been behind on a lot of this stuff and it feels like they're probably going to just, you know, take that exponential leap sooner or later. [name] also agrees with me back there. [01:05:26] yeah, it's not like the, it's not like the every week we've got a new [01:05:30] update, like, uh, Playbook that we've seen it's the, Oh, we're just going to literally just drop this bomb. [01:05:36] Yeah. Google has always felt like the company that is the nerdiest in a certain way. Like they've always like, they're not like Apple. They're not [01:05:45] like the cool designer led company. They're the technologist led company. That's why they keep making products that suck, but have are technologically cool.

Play from 1:05:54 8:88:88 1:05:54 [01:05:54] This, this is where I do have a little skepticism of Google also though, because Always launch things. [01:06:00] That were like, kind of like they were almost products. Are they like, we're not fully committed to them. And so they killed them, you know? Right. [01:06:08] Right. I've never understood that. Especially considering how many employees they [01:06:15] have. [01:06:15] I mean, I don't know what their org structure looks like, but you know, yeah, you're, that's a great point. Right? Like Google plus, like, I mean, you just name it, you go down the list, right? Like, there's just so many killed products along the way.

Play from 1:06:28 8:88:88 1:06:28 [01:06:28] Well, I will say I have, I have particular [01:06:30] insight into [01:06:30] Google because I was [01:06:32] married to a Googler. [01:06:33] Oh, there we go. Another ex is also a Googler. Jesus, bro. But, My impression from that and obviously it biased and et cetera, but like a lot of [01:06:45] meetings, a lot of like alignment, like we need to align with a lot of people and then also like very technology led, like super nerdy and in a way that kind of was like, Hey, this is just a really cool [01:07:00] technology.

Play from 1:07:00 8:88:88 1:07:00 [01:07:00] We should do it. We should do Google class. You know, why not? Because why not? Let's do it. And then, and then, then we'll tell the marketing department and the product department to figure it, you know, figure out what, how this integrates. That was that my impression of how things work. So, but, um, but at [01:07:15] the same time, like maybe that plays to like, maybe AI plays to their strength. [01:07:18] Maybe, you know, their strength of technology is exactly where they need to be. And they lap everybody because, Hey, AI requires that you, Have the data, have the technologists, have the GPUs and TPUs and, [01:07:30] and like the researchers that are at the edge, you know, like Waymo, right? Like Waymo is Google, right? And that is like.

Play from 1:07:37 8:88:88 1:07:37 [01:07:37] Yeah, crushing everybody, including Tesla, you know, so [01:07:42] how much they, I mean, it's also just cash too. Right. I [01:07:45] mean, like, you know, at the end of the day, it's what feels like a lot of these companies like Midjourney said it, you know, like they said it on that office hours for the world building. They're just like, you know, if you guys want us to train a video model, like it's it to build a foundational model is like, I need to like a hundred million dollars. [01:07:59] We just [01:08:00] don't, they're like, it's, it's expensive.

Play from 1:08:03 8:88:88 1:08:03 Yeah. And we're not going to raise cash. So it's like, okay. Right. Right. Now, you know, some Google, right? Like they just, it's like in their lap with them. And they are the ad [01:08:12] company, right? Which I feel like is where AI [01:08:15] is headed. Like, I don't think, I feel like Hollywood is going to push for fidelity, but ads are like customization, hyper localization, all of that, that plays perfectly with AI ads. [01:08:27] And yeah.

Play from 1:08:28 8:88:88 1:08:28 [01:08:28] Yeah. That's a great thought. [01:08:30] Yeah, and I think that's where you know, you're gonna see a lot more of it the on your on your Instagram, TikTok feed in terms of advertising. Cause it's, you know, people are figuring it out. It's fine. It's always been the, you know, figure out Laura's need to figure out how to get products [01:08:45] into shots right now. [01:08:46] It's now that that's pretty possible. You're just going to see it over and over and over again. Cause it's, you need options and it's volume game, which is where I come from. It's crazy to watch everyone. Come around to that now that it's like, Oh, [01:09:00] we can do that. But yeah, I'm not looking forward to my, my feed being polluted though.

Play from 1:09:07 8:88:88 1:09:07 [01:09:06] Cause God knows Christmas ads have been just crushing me over the last two weeks. [01:09:12] Or will you feel some more seen by your [01:09:15] ads? Which is a weird thought. I do [01:09:16] think that my Instagram feeds pretty good, right? I do think like, I was, I was joking with my wife that I bought her something for Christmas the other day, and then it was like, it was one thing, something I never look at. [01:09:26] And then my entire feed was all different variations of the thing that I [01:09:30] bought her. And it was like, every post, [01:09:31] I was like, yeah, [01:09:34] what the hell? But you know, it's always fun to go Google something that you're interested in buying because you, you know, you're going to get it on your IgE feed. So I'm like, let me go look at a few websites like that.

1:09:30Data Is King

Play from 1:09:44 8:88:88 1:09:44 [01:09:44] And then it's like, Oh, all [01:09:45] sunglasses. Nice. Perfect. Now I can choose instead of actually searching for them. Or [01:09:48] you click on one ad just to see what the price is and then you're, then it's just like the next five ads or. Competitors of the same thing, [01:09:57] bro. I, yeah, I clicked on his course the other [01:10:00] day. [01:10:00] There was this guy that was doing like a Midjourney or like a creative director course. I forget who the hell it was, you know, it's like Midjourney course from creative director. I'm like, cool. Let me just see what he's charging. And like, I looked at it and then I have been retargeted maybe 80 times since then, like seven variations [01:10:15] of ads.

Play from 1:10:15 8:88:88 1:10:15 [01:10:15] I'm like, man, I, this is so. This is so intense. You guys must be spending a lot of money on this because that's a lot of hyper targeting, but dude, it's I can't imagine it getting better, which is just just [01:10:30] just don't sign [01:10:30] away your likeness or you're gonna see yourself in your own ads You know [01:10:37] Didn't even think about that Jesus it's that's it is weird.

Play from 1:10:43 8:88:88 1:10:43 [01:10:42] Yeah It is where I open up my [01:10:45] Instagram. Sometimes I did a speaking engagement for uh, affiliate world, which is, you know, just a media buyer performance marketing, um, conference. And for whatever reason, apparently the, the ad creative of me speaking on stage was like really doing very well for [01:11:00] them. [01:11:00] So every time I like open it, I just like see myself, but it's not me. And I'm just like, this is so weird. Like if people send it to me, they're like, what is this? I'm like, they've been running it for like a year and a half because it, it just, for whatever the hook, whatever the way they structured it. The whole thing like works, so they just keep You [01:11:15] know, bail on it.

Play from 1:11:16 8:88:88 1:11:16 [01:11:15] I've [01:11:16] personally seen that fucking a thousand times, bro. [01:11:21] And I'm like, well, you guys take it down. That's Midjourney 5. 2. I sound like an idiot. You know, you see the images in the background. It's like so shitty in [01:11:30] comparison to what's there now. I'm like, come on. [01:11:33] It's all that. All this is going to age poorly. [01:11:36] I know how fast it moves. So I just, you know, [01:11:38] You see the comments on the ads like, it's like, those images suck, you know, like that, that [01:11:45] looks like it was done in Dali. I'm like, Oh God, man, this is a year and a half ago. Almost. You know? Yeah. It's all in context, baby. It's funny. Fine.

Play from 1:11:53 8:88:88 1:11:53 [01:11:53] This was like, awesome. Dude. Great having you, dude. I mean, you added a ton of value. Good insight. Appreciate [01:12:00] it. We might, we might actually have to have you back, you know, and just do like another conversation. I think you had a nice, voice to this, this room that, uh, it's just got like a, you know, like Rory and I have paralleled experiences, but different, same with you, I think that's, um, you know, and you're able to speak to [01:12:15] everything, uh, really deeply too. [01:12:16] So I'm sure the audience appreciates that super fun. Uh, I got nothing else, man. Yeah, I hope you guys, man, I hope you guys have a great Christmas. Likewise, happy [01:12:25] holidays.

Play from 1:12:26 8:88:88 1:12:26 [01:12:26] Do something fun for the holidays. Happy New Year. 2045, [01:12:28] the year of video? [01:12:30] Or what is it? What is it? The year of 3D video? I don't know. [01:12:32] World building? [01:12:33] Yeah. [01:12:35] World building? Maybe? We'll say like, oh, that's not five, that's not gonna happen until five years, and it'll be like five weeks from now, you know, like, Oh, AR to, you know, text to [01:12:45] AR? Like, uh, you know, what else is new? What else is next? But let everyone know where they can find you. [01:12:50] If they want to want to get more content.

Play from 1:12:52 8:88:88 1:12:52 [01:12:52] Thank you guys so much for having me. That was super fun. I could talk to you guys for hours. You can find me on my favorite place to find me as you on YouTube where I'm minds [01:13:00] mind TV, , and M I N H S M I N D TV, and then I'm minds mind on everything else on all the other socials. [01:13:06] You can find me. And basically do that YouTube content, make, do client work with AI films, AI music videos, all that kind of stuff. And [01:13:15] then I have a little community mainly in SF in LA, but we're doing stuff in Seattle, Palm Springs, New York, where we do like gen jam events, where we get people to play around with AI, create films and music videos and art and whatever.

Play from 1:13:29 8:88:88 1:13:29 [01:13:29] Yeah. So, [01:13:30] so, [01:13:30] so cool. Maybe we'll show up at one. I think it'd be, uh, I think it'd be pretty legit to come hang out, but yeah. Absolutely. Thank you again for coming on. Thank you everyone for tuning in. If you, you know, as is tradition, like and subscribe. [01:13:45] And then uh, you know, we'll see you, I think, tomorrow. What next week for a little bit of end of year, a little roundup, Drew, maybe a little, a little post [01:13:52] Christmas eggnog, you know, get a little crazy.

Play from 1:13:55 8:88:88 1:13:55 [01:13:54] Maybe I'll do a little Midjourney after dark with some eggnog. I don't know. We'll, we'll, we'll figure it [01:13:58] out. I like [01:14:00] that. All right, fellas. Thanks guys. Later.